No matter your politics, watch this. - Page 2

Alex · 11-06-2007, 12:10 PM

I don't really disagree with much that Olbermann said, I just can't help that whenever I listen to him I feel like I am listening to a polarity reversed Michael Savage.

However, I find him very compelling in written form. So it is just something about the way he talks. Whereas Michael Savage is a complete nutjob regardless of medium.

Motorboat Cruiser · 11-06-2007, 01:15 PM

What saddens me the most is that, apparently, nobody on either side of the aisle has the backbone to stand up to this man and put a stop to this horrific abuse of power. One man shouldn't be allowed to disassemble everything this country stands for and yet, congress continues to rubber stamp his every whim. I'm disgusted - no, make that infuriated with these spineless bastards almost more than I am with the President himself. Our system was supposed to be able to counter a situation like this and it has failed miserably.

Boss Radio · 11-06-2007, 01:38 PM

I think that much of the confusion surrounding this issue is that the name they chose makes it sound fun. Hey, kids - let's go waterboarding! It almost sounds like a Vans Warped tour side stage activity, sponsored by Mountain Dew.

Therefore, since it sounds like a hoot, I'm having trouble finding fault with it.
Now if they called it water torture, well, that has a whole different ring to it.

Semantics aside, I do think that there is a time and a place for everything.
If someone kidnaped a child or a thermo-nuclear device and is holding out on the 411, then I say, by all means, take them out for a nice day of water boarding.

Personally, they would have gotten more mileage out of a Nickelodeon-themed Sheik dunk tank with an American Idol phone-in remote dunk feature, but that's just my opinion.

And while I vehemently disagree with much of this admistration's policy, I also disagree with blanket dismissals of "playing by the rules."

No country - not a single one - follows any kind of rules, save the rule of the bottom line. There is no altruism here. Just protecting the system that gives us fossil fuel, no matter what the cost.

So we are all complicit by virtue of driving and consuming and pursuing leisure.
Excepting the Amish who churn their own butter and ride horsies, and the occasional self-sustaining back-woods off the grid militia.

But, yes...George has been very naughty indeed.

blueerica · 11-06-2007, 01:50 PM

Boss Radio...

You give me the smiles.

Alex · 11-06-2007, 02:31 PM

I was listening to somebody on the radio yesterday who made a very interesting, and valid in my opinion, point:

America's relationship with waterboarding is about 100 years old. We used it in the Philippines in the Spanish American war. It was sometimes used in WWI and WWII. We courtmarshalled and convicted a soldier for doing it in Vietnam.

But throughout that entire history up until the Bush administration it was never questioned whether waterboarding is torture. It was accepted as fact that it was. What was discussed was whether it is ever appropriate to use torture. Teddy Roosevelt did not defend waterboarding by denying its nature, he defended it by saying it has a valid role.

You can disagree with that and argue about policy but the latter is an honest argument while the Bush administration's stance is a dodge, and a pretty stupid one at that.

Boss Radio · 11-07-2007, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueerica

Boss Radio...

You give me the smiles.

Aww, thanks!
Just trying to lighten the tone and all.

BarTopDancer · 11-06-2007, 02:51 PM

Right or wrong, there is no excuse for this Administration to go unchecked as it currently is. We have checks and balances in place for a reason. Congress and the Supreme Court aren't supposed to be a "yes man" to the President.

sleepyjeff · 11-06-2007, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

Right or wrong, there is no excuse for this Administration to go unchecked as it currently is. We have checks and balances in place for a reason. Congress and the Supreme Court aren't supposed to be a "yes man" to the President.

Then why are they trying to table resolutions that would go after the biggest wrongdoer of all time(I say that in jest).....Dick Cheney?

Quote:

Only 162 members -- 27 Republicans and 135 Democrats -- supported tabling the proposal. A total of 251 members -- 86 Democrats and 165 Republicans -- opposed it.

That't right........More Republicans voted for going ahead with impeachment proceedings against the VP then did Dems. Who would have ever thought that Kucinch's biggest ally in the war on the WhiteHouse would be Republicans

Alex · 11-06-2007, 08:28 PM

You know exactly why the Republicans voted that way. Not a single one would actually vote to impeach, it is nothing but parliamentary showmanship. If there were any actual strong support for impeachment they'd all be wailing about what a travesty it is, how it gives aid and comfort to the enemy, blah blah blah.

sleepyjeff · 11-06-2007, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

You know exactly why the Republicans voted that way. Not a single one would actually vote to impeach, it is nothing but parliamentary showmanship. If there were any actual strong support for impeachment they'd all be wailing about what a travesty it is, how it gives aid and comfort to the enemy, blah blah blah.

While that is true of the Republicans it does not explain away the inactions of the Majority of Dems. If it is their job to provide a check against a runaway WhiteHouse one must come to one of two conclusions: A) They are negligent in their duty or B) The WhiteHouse isn't running away.

11-06-2007, 12:10 PM	#1
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	I don't really disagree with much that Olbermann said, I just can't help that whenever I listen to him I feel like I am listening to a polarity reversed Michael Savage. However, I find him very compelling in written form. So it is just something about the way he talks. Whereas Michael Savage is a complete nutjob regardless of medium.
	Submit to Quotes

11-06-2007, 01:15 PM	#2
Motorboat Cruiser Cruiser of Motorboats Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: So Cal Posts: 3,665	What saddens me the most is that, apparently, nobody on either side of the aisle has the backbone to stand up to this man and put a stop to this horrific abuse of power. One man shouldn't be allowed to disassemble everything this country stands for and yet, congress continues to rubber stamp his every whim. I'm disgusted - no, make that infuriated with these spineless bastards almost more than I am with the President himself. Our system was supposed to be able to counter a situation like this and it has failed miserably.
	Submit to Quotes

11-06-2007, 01:38 PM	#3
Boss Radio The Littlest Hobo Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Hobo Junction Posts: 393	I think that much of the confusion surrounding this issue is that the name they chose makes it sound fun. Hey, kids - let's go waterboarding! It almost sounds like a Vans Warped tour side stage activity, sponsored by Mountain Dew. Therefore, since it sounds like a hoot, I'm having trouble finding fault with it. Now if they called it water torture, well, that has a whole different ring to it. Semantics aside, I do think that there is a time and a place for everything. If someone kidnaped a child or a thermo-nuclear device and is holding out on the 411, then I say, by all means, take them out for a nice day of water boarding. Personally, they would have gotten more mileage out of a Nickelodeon-themed Sheik dunk tank with an American Idol phone-in remote dunk feature, but that's just my opinion. And while I vehemently disagree with much of this admistration's policy, I also disagree with blanket dismissals of "playing by the rules." No country - not a single one - follows any kind of rules, save the rule of the bottom line. There is no altruism here. Just protecting the system that gives us fossil fuel, no matter what the cost. So we are all complicit by virtue of driving and consuming and pursuing leisure. Excepting the Amish who churn their own butter and ride horsies, and the occasional self-sustaining back-woods off the grid militia. But, yes...George has been very naughty indeed.
	Submit to Quotes

11-06-2007, 01:50 PM	#4
blueerica Nueve Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,497	Boss Radio... You give me the smiles. __________________ Tomorrow is the day for you and me
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11-06-2007, 02:31 PM	#5
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	I was listening to somebody on the radio yesterday who made a very interesting, and valid in my opinion, point: America's relationship with waterboarding is about 100 years old. We used it in the Philippines in the Spanish American war. It was sometimes used in WWI and WWII. We courtmarshalled and convicted a soldier for doing it in Vietnam. But throughout that entire history up until the Bush administration it was never questioned whether waterboarding is torture. It was accepted as fact that it was. What was discussed was whether it is ever appropriate to use torture. Teddy Roosevelt did not defend waterboarding by denying its nature, he defended it by saying it has a valid role. You can disagree with that and argue about policy but the latter is an honest argument while the Bush administration's stance is a dodge, and a pretty stupid one at that.
	Submit to Quotes

11-06-2007, 02:51 PM	#7
BarTopDancer Prepping... Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Here, there, everywhere Posts: 11,405	Right or wrong, there is no excuse for this Administration to go unchecked as it currently is. We have checks and balances in place for a reason. Congress and the Supreme Court aren't supposed to be a "yes man" to the President. __________________ Spork is the new MacGyver Postcards From My Edge
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11-06-2007, 08:28 PM	#9
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	You know exactly why the Republicans voted that way. Not a single one would actually vote to impeach, it is nothing but parliamentary showmanship. If there were any actual strong support for impeachment they'd all be wailing about what a travesty it is, how it gives aid and comfort to the enemy, blah blah blah.
	Submit to Quotes