The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux) - Page 204

Gemini Cricket · 03-06-2007, 10:21 AM

Ghoulish Delight · 03-06-2007, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

Oh wow. Reports from yesterday about the jury asking for clarification of the definition of "beyond reasonable doubt" kinda made it sound like they were leaning towards not guilty. I guess not.

Gemini Cricket · 03-06-2007, 10:36 AM

I was surprised as well. I wasn't sure how this whole issue was going to turn out. So confusing.

mousepod · 03-06-2007, 10:41 AM

Damn liberal media. Libby was found not guilty of one count. That's 20%!

JWBear · 03-06-2007, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mousepod

Damn liberal media. Libby was found not guilty of one count. That's 20%!

LOL!!!

Alex · 03-06-2007, 10:51 AM

And in the end just as unimportant and irrelevant as most of the minor convictions achieved during the Clinton years.

He lied about something that it turns out wasn't illegal. It's like a jaywalking ticket. Yes, technically a law was broken but it sure feels like a waste of time.

Gemini Cricket · 03-06-2007, 10:51 AM

Could you imagine going to prison with a nickname like "Scooter"? Oy vey!
"Come here, Scooter. Give Big Papa Pops a kiss."

innerSpaceman · 03-06-2007, 12:29 PM

Um, he's not going to prison. The appeal will run until Bush's term ends, at which time "Scooter" likely tops the list of last-minute presidential pardons.

And I don't know where in the world Alex is getting that Libby lied about something not illegal. He lied about the outting of a CIA operative, clearly an illegal act.

Alex · 03-06-2007, 12:34 PM

No, there is no agreement that outing Plame was illegal.

However, there is general agreement that Libby's actions were not illegal. He lied about conversations that were not illegal (this is why he is only charged with lying about them).

innerSpaceman · 03-06-2007, 04:15 PM

Whose agreement do you need, Alex? Libby's conversations with reporters wherein he identified Valerie Plame as a covert CIA operative are illegal, and no one's agreement is necessary.

I have no idea why he wasn't charged with that ... except that when there's contradictory evidence, it's probably easier for a jury to find deception than to find which side is telling the truth.

In one sense, it's lousy that the cover-up is what's charged and convicted on, rather than the underlying crime. In another sense, however, government cover-ups are criminal acts in and of themselves that society has an interest in curbing via criminal prosecution. And though there seems to be no particular deterrent factor in the take-down always being for the cover-up rather than the crime, less cover-ups would be a good thing.

If only to leave nothing but the underlying crime for feckless prosecutors to go after.

03-06-2007, 10:21 AM	#1
Gemini Cricket ... Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,244	Libby guilty of 4 of 5 counts.
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03-06-2007, 10:36 AM	#3
Gemini Cricket ... Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,244	I was surprised as well. I wasn't sure how this whole issue was going to turn out. So confusing.
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03-06-2007, 10:41 AM	#4
mousepod You broke your Ramadar! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,635	Damn liberal media. Libby was found not guilty of one count. That's 20%! __________________ "Give the public everything you can give them, keep the place as clean as you can keep it, keep it friendly" - Walt Disney
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03-06-2007, 10:51 AM	#6
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	And in the end just as unimportant and irrelevant as most of the minor convictions achieved during the Clinton years. He lied about something that it turns out wasn't illegal. It's like a jaywalking ticket. Yes, technically a law was broken but it sure feels like a waste of time.
	Submit to Quotes

03-06-2007, 10:51 AM	#7
Gemini Cricket ... Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,244	Could you imagine going to prison with a nickname like "Scooter"? Oy vey! "Come here, Scooter. Give Big Papa Pops a kiss."
	Submit to Quotes

03-06-2007, 12:29 PM	#8
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	Um, he's not going to prison. The appeal will run until Bush's term ends, at which time "Scooter" likely tops the list of last-minute presidential pardons. And I don't know where in the world Alex is getting that Libby lied about something not illegal. He lied about the outting of a CIA operative, clearly an illegal act.
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03-06-2007, 12:34 PM	#9
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	No, there is no agreement that outing Plame was illegal. However, there is general agreement that Libby's actions were not illegal. He lied about conversations that were not illegal (this is why he is only charged with lying about them).
	Submit to Quotes

03-06-2007, 04:15 PM	#10
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	Whose agreement do you need, Alex? Libby's conversations with reporters wherein he identified Valerie Plame as a covert CIA operative are illegal, and no one's agreement is necessary. I have no idea why he wasn't charged with that ... except that when there's contradictory evidence, it's probably easier for a jury to find deception than to find which side is telling the truth. In one sense, it's lousy that the cover-up is what's charged and convicted on, rather than the underlying crime. In another sense, however, government cover-ups are criminal acts in and of themselves that society has an interest in curbing via criminal prosecution. And though there seems to be no particular deterrent factor in the take-down always being for the cover-up rather than the crime, less cover-ups would be a good thing. If only to leave nothing but the underlying crime for feckless prosecutors to go after.
	Submit to Quotes