The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux) - Page 218

scaeagles · 07-06-2007, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Let's leave it to the capricious whim of the Supreme Kourt.

Obviously society in general has decided that there are certain things that shouldn't be allowed. If there are to be restrictions (and I'm certain there always will be), who else should decide?

I don't mean the rhetorically in the least. Assuming there will always be limitations, who should decide? It's so vastly complex I don't know if there is an answer.

Alex · 07-06-2007, 09:04 AM

Methinks that with this court most of us would not be pleased with their tilt in deciding which viewpoints are sufficiently egregious to justify violence.

Though that is the idea, to some degree, behind hate speech regulations. That some thoughts are so horrible that the violent can't be held responsible for their behavior so the onus is on the speaker to be silent. The bad thing is that once such an idea exists, the contest it to get any speech you don't like put in that category.

Morrigoon · 07-06-2007, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

Methinks that with this court most of us would not be pleased with their tilt in deciding which viewpoints are sufficiently egregious to justify violence.

Though that is the idea, to some degree, behind hate speech regulations. That some thoughts are so horrible that the violent can't be held responsible for their behavior so the onus is on the speaker to be silent. The bad thing is that once such an idea exists, the contest it to get any speech you don't like put in that category.

Well said. And it reminds me very much of classifying any behavior you don't like as being "terrorist".

innerSpaceman · 07-06-2007, 10:57 AM

So forgive me for not having read the ruling, but did it declare that any student of public schools has lost their free speech rights so long as they remain a public school student?

Alex · 07-06-2007, 11:08 AM

No it essentially said that the school has a compelling interest in limiting speech when students are advocating illegal behavior.

This requires:

1. The interpretation that Bong Hits 4 Jesus is an exhortation to do drugs
2. That since the school gave permission for kids to leave the school to attend this event that the school somehow maintains that interest.

At least, that's my interpretation of it. Tinker (the 1969 case that allowed anti-war speech) isn't explicitly overruled. Not only was it 5-4 but the 5 had some splits.

Thomas felt that Tinker should have been overrruled. Alito and Kennedy limited their finding to the very narrow instance of advocating drug use but said that they still view political and social speech as protected.

Breyer, assented but disagreed with the grounds. He simply viewed the principal as having official immunity and therefore the other issues were moot.

So, nothing other than this specific case was really settled and a very similar case with slightly different wording could have a different result ("Bong Hits 4 Jesus if the Government Legalizes That")

Morrigoon · 07-09-2007, 05:49 PM

Here's a juicy tidbit of Capitol Hill gossip/news:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19675580/

Moonliner · 07-15-2007, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bin Laden

The happy (man) is the one that God has chosen him to be a martyr," added bin Laden, who was shown outdoors wearing army fatigues and looking tired.

Is it just me or does this guy sound just a wee bit desperate?

Here's to hoping we make Binnie a "Happy Man"

scaeagles · 07-15-2007, 10:57 AM

I hope so.

It is interesting, though, the conflicting information out there. Some reports say the surge in Iraq is working, some say al Qaeda is at pre 9/11 strength, so it's very tough to tell. It does seem like it is a call to his followers to die for their cause, though.

I envision the half Romulan child of Tasha Yar assisting Ursa and Betor (spelling?) in the Klingon civil war. Once caught red handed, they had to cease their assistance. I think Iran has been caught a few times now and may be forced to stop their support of those fighting in Iraq because of their own nuclear ambitions. The last thing Iran wants is an attack against their facilities because of their assistance to al Qaeda related groups in Iraq.

Ghoulish Delight · 07-15-2007, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

It is interesting, though, the conflicting information out there. Some reports say the surge in Iraq is working, some say al Qaeda is at pre 9/11 strength, so it's very tough to tell. It does seem like it is a call to his followers to die for their cause, though.

It also seems like it's old video recompiled or clipped from pre-9/11 recordings.

Moonliner · 07-15-2007, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I envision the half Romulan child of Tasha Yar assisting Ursa and Betor (spelling?) in the Klingon civil war.

Geek.

07-06-2007, 09:04 AM	#2
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	Methinks that with this court most of us would not be pleased with their tilt in deciding which viewpoints are sufficiently egregious to justify violence. Though that is the idea, to some degree, behind hate speech regulations. That some thoughts are so horrible that the violent can't be held responsible for their behavior so the onus is on the speaker to be silent. The bad thing is that once such an idea exists, the contest it to get any speech you don't like put in that category.
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07-06-2007, 10:57 AM	#4
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	So forgive me for not having read the ruling, but did it declare that any student of public schools has lost their free speech rights so long as they remain a public school student?
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07-06-2007, 11:08 AM	#5
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	No it essentially said that the school has a compelling interest in limiting speech when students are advocating illegal behavior. This requires: 1. The interpretation that Bong Hits 4 Jesus is an exhortation to do drugs 2. That since the school gave permission for kids to leave the school to attend this event that the school somehow maintains that interest. At least, that's my interpretation of it. Tinker (the 1969 case that allowed anti-war speech) isn't explicitly overruled. Not only was it 5-4 but the 5 had some splits. Thomas felt that Tinker should have been overrruled. Alito and Kennedy limited their finding to the very narrow instance of advocating drug use but said that they still view political and social speech as protected. Breyer, assented but disagreed with the grounds. He simply viewed the principal as having official immunity and therefore the other issues were moot. So, nothing other than this specific case was really settled and a very similar case with slightly different wording could have a different result ("Bong Hits 4 Jesus if the Government Legalizes That")
	Submit to Quotes

07-09-2007, 05:49 PM	#6
Morrigoon I throw stones at houses Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Location: Location Posts: 9,534	Here's a juicy tidbit of Capitol Hill gossip/news: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19675580/ __________________ http://bash.org/?top "It is useless for sheep to pass a resolution in favor of vegetarianism while wolves remain of a different opinion." -- William Randolph Inge
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07-15-2007, 10:57 AM	#8
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	I hope so. It is interesting, though, the conflicting information out there. Some reports say the surge in Iraq is working, some say al Qaeda is at pre 9/11 strength, so it's very tough to tell. It does seem like it is a call to his followers to die for their cause, though. I envision the half Romulan child of Tasha Yar assisting Ursa and Betor (spelling?) in the Klingon civil war. Once caught red handed, they had to cease their assistance. I think Iran has been caught a few times now and may be forced to stop their support of those fighting in Iraq because of their own nuclear ambitions. The last thing Iran wants is an attack against their facilities because of their assistance to al Qaeda related groups in Iraq.
	Submit to Quotes