The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

But we should be. It's PRECISELY the kind of invasion that our prime enemies, the radical muslims, are expert at perpetrating.

100% agreed. However, if I recall, you are against building a high tech wall to prevent (or at least drastically slow) this invasion. This is an area that I completely agree Bush is failing drastically in, and it should be his highest priorty, as those very few Constitutionally mandated federal responsibilities include protecting the borders of the US.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Right now there are machines being installed (or that have been installed - I am not sure of the time line) that scan ports and ships for radiation signatures common to nuclear weapons.

There is monitoring of terrorist "chatter".

And there are probably hundreds of other things going on that I have no idea about.

The interesting thing about the gathering of intelligence and successes in the intelligence world is that revealing successes will often lead to revealing the methods employed in those successes, therefore rendering those methods less successful.

There is no fool proof method, however. It is an ongoing tricky process that cannot be relaxed. It is only a matter of time until the next attack (nuke, dirty bomb, or otherwise) that will leave the press and the populace screaming "why weren't we doing more to prevent it?!?!".

And how much does all this cost, compared to the cost of -say- occupying Iraq? The measures you listed are indeed akin to the traffic lights and stop signs of the motoring world. They are reasonable, and reasonably priced preventive methods. Would you find a cop on every corner in America a reasonable method of preventing traffic accidents? Or would that be excessive and wasteful?

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by JWBear

Do you think that hate speach doesn't cause violent actions? When someone goes out and beats or kils a gay man because their church leaders taught them to hate gays, I find those church leaders just as responsible, moraly, as the person doing the physical act. They may not have struck a physical blow, but by their words, they incited the actions of others. And those that remain silent about those words must also carry part of the guilt.

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Couldn't disagree more. Words are words. Those who do the actions (or plan the actions) bear the blame themselves.

And right here is a great illustration of where some of the fundemental differences are between various poters on this board - and probably the world over (since we are such a perfect little microcosm )

I happen to agree with JWBear on this because the hate that is taught can and DOES lead to violence. The church or whichever institution is teaching intolerance can deny direct responsability for the actions but they still had a part in getting the radical thinker to that point of insane action.

There is so separation, no black and white, it's all just a continium - a domino effect. That's where I think we have a great deficite in our national intelligence. There is not a whole lot of understanding about cause and effect. Maybe Candide shoule be required reading again.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

100% agreed. However, if I recall, you are against building a high tech wall to prevent (or at least drastically slow) this invasion.

Um, the problem in Europe is legal immigration. Muslims are not sneaking across borders; they are legally inflitrating Europe with the intention of creating a Muslim continent within four generations. And they may succeed. But not without the complicity of the individual European nations' individual immigraton policies.

Those are what must change. A wall does nothing to stop the legal Muslim tide.



We are facing a similar problem with latino immigration, and I'll admit that I don't know what portion of such immigration is legal or illegal (oops, maybe it's time for me to merge all the Daily Grind threads after all).

But if they are trying to make the U.S. into a latin nation, that's something I've never heard of. Maybe they're just being more surrepticious than the Muslims ... but I somehow doubt that. (Many muslims brag quite openly about taking over Europe ... it would be laugable if it weren't so demonstrably happening.)

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

And how much does all this cost, compared to the cost of -say- occupying Iraq. The measures you listed are indeed akin to the traffic lights and stop signs of the motoring world. They are reasonable, and reasonably priced preventive methods. Would you find a cop on every corner in America a reasonable method of preventing traffic accidents? Or would that be excessive and wasteful?

I understand you sentiment, but disagree with the premise of your opening statement. Occupation implies control of the government. I do not agree that we are an occupying force.

Be that as it may.....should a nuke explode in LA, would it not be said that we weren't doing enough or spending enough to have prevented it?

Of course it would not be reasonable to have a cop on every corner. It is reasonable, though, to install traffic cameras to prevent red light running (Phoenix has a bunch and they are proving effective). They aren't at every intersection, just the busiest with a history of a problem of red light running.

We aren't monitoring Finland for terrorist activity or trying to depose the leader of Monaco because we have suspicions. That would certainly be excessive. I do not find our middle eastern activities to be excessive.

[innerSpaceman]

^ hmm, actually decent points. Must be why you're my favorite right-wing conservative nutjob!


Oh, and gak:

Originally Posted by The LoT

You must spread some Mojo around before giving it to Not Afraid again.

and my edit of her post was just to fix her quote blocks

[Not Afraid]

LOL! I feel special. ISM can't mojo me. LALALALALALALWHEEEEEEE!

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Um, the problem in Europe is legal immigration.

Right. But thats changing the subject. I don't think we have a legal immigration problem (though there are problems within the system, the system isn't a problem).

We do face a similar situation with illegal immigration here, though.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

^ hmm, actually decent points. Must be why you're my favorite right-wing conservative nutjob!

This could be the highest praise I could ever expect from you. Though I did get mojo from you once....for mocking GD.

[Scrooge McSam]

You must spread some Mojo around before giving it to Not Afraid again.