The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux) - Page 279

Ghoulish Delight · 02-03-2008, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Doesn't seem like Romney is completely dead yet - he has a lead (though a slim 38-35 lead) in delegate rich CA, and a national poll shows a 38-38 tie with McCain. There are Rasmussen polls just released today (or at least that I only heard about today).

Filed poll says 32-24 McCain as of today. Meanwhile, Obama's shot up to within 2% of Clinton in California, with 18% undecided. Too close to call.

scaeagles · 02-03-2008, 02:21 PM

Completely my bad. I misread and the 38-38 tie was in CA. Still what I've read today isn't 34-24 McCain, it's 33-29.

However, the numbers certainly vary. I've seen 38-35 Romney over McCain in CA, 37-33 Romney over McCain in CA, and anywhere from a 4-7 pt McCain national advantage.

Why do I bother to look at polls anyway?

3894 · 02-03-2008, 03:49 PM

I have seen it, right in my own family.

My daughters (15 and 18) are for Obama. They are actually getting involved. They are organizing a voter registration drive at their high school for the Wisconsin primary and very much looking forward to an Obama event on Tuesday night here (Mr. Wonderful won't be there but whatever).

scaeagles · 02-03-2008, 06:03 PM

Why doesn't this surprise me?

Quote:

The New York senator has criticized presidential rival Barack Obama for pushing a health plan that would not require universal coverage. Clinton has not always specified the enforcement measures she would embrace, but when pressed on ABC's "This Week," she said: "I think there are a number of mechanisms" that are possible, including "going after people's wages, automatic enrollment.

I love the government forcing the populace to do stuff.

innerSpaceman · 02-03-2008, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Why doesn't this surprise me?

I love the government forcing the populace to do stuff.

You mean like passing a driving test and getting a license and paying registration, those kind of things?

Yes, i get the difference ... the new one is a regulation and tax on simply being alive, while the other is for the privilege of driving.

But make no mistake, driving has become central and irrevocably entangled with my, and millions of others', prosperous american lifestyles. And i don't balk that the government makes me do it.

If this is what it takes to improve healthcare significantly in this country, it will hardly seem more of a sacrifice of freedom to me than a driver's license or hand gun license.

sleepyjeff · 02-03-2008, 09:46 PM

Romney won the Gold in Maine yesterday 52% to 21%

scaeagles · 02-04-2008, 05:01 AM

It seems like a better analogy would be that since driving is so important to freedom that everyone should be taxed to provide all with a car and insurance. Afterall, it isn't fair that some people don't have a car or a reliable one. So let's garnish wages and raise taxes to force everyone who doesn't have a car to get one....it's only fair.

Strangler Lewis · 02-04-2008, 06:54 AM

It seems like a better analogy would be that since education is so important to ensuring a trained work force and a law abiding populace that there should be public schools and that those who do not have children should pay for the education of all to a minimum level rather than leaving them to learn citizenship and civics in the gutter or at their megachurch, yeshiva or madrassah. And those who are armed to the teeth should pay for the police protection of those who are not.

At any rate, I don't think the legitimacy of requiring people to get health insurance can be questioned so long as we can identify some societal consequence of their failure to do so. I haven't looked into it deeply enough to say what's better. It may be that the societal consequence is akin to those behind seatbelt and helmet laws. It may also be that leaving people the "choice" of going uninsured means extra burdens on public hospitals, also a legitimate consideration in my opinion.

scaeagles · 02-04-2008, 07:05 AM

Hmm....and look at the condition of public education in general. Constant harping on how our kids don't do as well in science and math as other industrialized nations, and the solution is typically to throw more money at it, as if money solves the basic problems. There is a reason my kids go to private school. Regardless of where my kids go, the education system is an example of why I don't think such a health system will work.

For their own good, and for the benefit of society in general, the obese should be forced into exercise and weight reduction programs, and have their wages garnished if they will not do it willingly. After all, who can argue that eliminating obesity would not be good for the individual and society in general, and reduce the overall cost of health care?

Scrooge McSam · 02-05-2008, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

After all, who can argue that eliminating obesity would not be good for the individual and society in general, and reduce the overall cost of health care?

The Netherlands' Institute for National Health would.

That "and" can get you in trouble, can't it?

02-03-2008, 02:21 PM	#2
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	Completely my bad. I misread and the 38-38 tie was in CA. Still what I've read today isn't 34-24 McCain, it's 33-29. However, the numbers certainly vary. I've seen 38-35 Romney over McCain in CA, 37-33 Romney over McCain in CA, and anywhere from a 4-7 pt McCain national advantage. Why do I bother to look at polls anyway?
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02-03-2008, 03:49 PM	#3
3894 Next Stop: Funkytown! Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cheeselandia Posts: 1,907	Obama IS energizing young voters I have seen it, right in my own family. My daughters (15 and 18) are for Obama. They are actually getting involved. They are organizing a voter registration drive at their high school for the Wisconsin primary and very much looking forward to an Obama event on Tuesday night here (Mr. Wonderful won't be there but whatever). __________________ "I didn't want to have to do this, but you leave me no choice. Here comes the smolder." - Flynn Rider, "Tangled"
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02-03-2008, 09:46 PM	#6
sleepyjeff Go Hawks Go! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Parkrose Posts: 2,632	Romney won the Gold in Maine yesterday 52% to 21% __________________ River Guardian-less
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02-04-2008, 05:01 AM	#7
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	It seems like a better analogy would be that since driving is so important to freedom that everyone should be taxed to provide all with a car and insurance. Afterall, it isn't fair that some people don't have a car or a reliable one. So let's garnish wages and raise taxes to force everyone who doesn't have a car to get one....it's only fair.
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02-04-2008, 06:54 AM	#8
Strangler Lewis Doing The Job Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: In a state Posts: 3,956	It seems like a better analogy would be that since education is so important to ensuring a trained work force and a law abiding populace that there should be public schools and that those who do not have children should pay for the education of all to a minimum level rather than leaving them to learn citizenship and civics in the gutter or at their megachurch, yeshiva or madrassah. And those who are armed to the teeth should pay for the police protection of those who are not. At any rate, I don't think the legitimacy of requiring people to get health insurance can be questioned so long as we can identify some societal consequence of their failure to do so. I haven't looked into it deeply enough to say what's better. It may be that the societal consequence is akin to those behind seatbelt and helmet laws. It may also be that leaving people the "choice" of going uninsured means extra burdens on public hospitals, also a legitimate consideration in my opinion. __________________ Live now-pay later. Diner's Club! Last edited by Strangler Lewis : 02-04-2008 at 07:02 AM.
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02-04-2008, 07:05 AM	#9
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	Hmm....and look at the condition of public education in general. Constant harping on how our kids don't do as well in science and math as other industrialized nations, and the solution is typically to throw more money at it, as if money solves the basic problems. There is a reason my kids go to private school. Regardless of where my kids go, the education system is an example of why I don't think such a health system will work. For their own good, and for the benefit of society in general, the obese should be forced into exercise and weight reduction programs, and have their wages garnished if they will not do it willingly. After all, who can argue that eliminating obesity would not be good for the individual and society in general, and reduce the overall cost of health care?
	Submit to Quotes