Prop 8 Protest Information Thread - Page 28

Snowflake · 11-17-2008, 09:04 AM

I was too far away, but it seemed to be a great crowd on Saturday at City Hall/Civic Center. Since we had to be at the library, we melted away through that crowd.

I (and my NJ houseguest) later joined a march through North Beach, quite by accident, with a police escort. It was fun, though freakin hot for SF this time of the year. The crowds lunching and walking along Columbus were waving and whistling and showing great signs of support. It was a great experience and I actually did run into a few people I know.

Cadaverous Pallor · 11-17-2008, 09:07 AM

600 seems really high for Irvine.

Not Afraid · 11-17-2008, 10:08 AM

So, what's next?

Gemini Cricket · 11-17-2008, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

So, what's next?

For me, that's a very good question.

One of the frustrating things about going to these rallies is that the speakers did a lot of acknowledging of everyone's anger but didn't really talk about where we go from here. They talk about the lawsuits and 2010 but that's about all. I need a game plan that we can all rally around. Pink Holidays and A Day Without Gays aren't enough. (And I don't think they will make that big of a difference.)

innerSpaceman · 11-17-2008, 10:43 AM

The sad truth is there is NOTHING to do.

In fact, the protests, demonstrations and rallies ARE what have to continue for the next 6 months in an effort to show public support for a California Supreme Court decision repealing the Prop 8 vote as an illegal revision.

There are only two tracks of action ... and they are indeed the current lawsuits before the California Supreme Court, and another ballot measure for 2010.

There is no direct action that can be taken to speed or influence these two processes. But since the Mormon Culthood will mount a recall effort of any justices who vote to repeal Prop 8, it is vital that public support remain highly visible until they make their decision.

The 100,000+ people who participated nationwide on Saturday is a big help, but it will be the support in California that really matters to our Supreme Court judges.

I'm pinning a lot of my hopes on those court cases, but wiser folks than me insist chances are 50/50 at best.

The other route, the much more involved, much more expensive route is to prepare and wage another ballot measure battle, for November 2010 - two years from now.

It's not like we'd have to wait two years to get started. Rather we should concentrate on public demonstrations for 6 months ... relatively inexpensive and easy ... until the Supreme Court ruling. If that doesn't go our way, it will indeed take 18 months of constant work and millions upon millions of dollars to bring this before the voters again with any chance of winning.

So for us right now, I think the fun thing to do would be to come up with some more creative-type demonstrations that might make the news ... and continue to make the news and involve people for the next 6 months.

And during that time, getting and keeping as many people involved will be paramount ... because if the court ruling goes against us, we will want to try a volunteer-basis signature drive to get the Prop 8 repeal measure on the ballot.

We would need one million signatures ... and identifying and marshalling those one million people before the start of the 150-day signature gathering period will not be easy. It's never been done on a volunteer basis in modern California politics. A professional signature gathering effort costs about $3 million in this State.

That would be $3 million less to spend on a campaign that might cost upwards of $30 million.

So I'm not sure what kind of "game plan" Gemini Cricket has in mind. But no one's gonna come down from on high and tell us what to do. We have just as much power to come up with a good idea or plan as anyone else, spread it on the internet, and see if it catches on or not.

I agree Pink Holidays and Days Without Gays may not be enough. But we need six months worth of newsworthy stuff, so every little bit helps.

Alex · 11-17-2008, 10:48 AM

Don't know nearly enough of the law here.

The argument challenging Proposition 8 is that it was is actually a significant revision of the constitution and not merely an amendment, right? If this argument loses, Prop 8 becomes part of the constitution.

Wouldn't a new ballot proposition reversing prop 8 then much more clearly fall into trouble for being a significant revision (explicitly reversing what it says seems significant to me) to the constitution? Therefore, just to be safe, shouldn't there be an effort to get the state legislature to do their necessary part before getting an anti-Prop 8 prop on the ballot in 2010?

innerSpaceman · 11-17-2008, 10:56 AM

Nope, from what I understand, if Prop 8 can amend the constitution by revising the constitution, then Anti Prop 8 can amend the constitution by revising the constitution right back.

In other words, if the judges ok Prop 8 (which says marriage is between a man and a woman) as a valid ballot measure, then another measure which says marriage is between a man and a goat is just as valid.

(That's not to say getting the legislature involved for a revision effort would not be wise, and would not be undertaken ... but a revision is pretty much not gonna happen either way. I think it requires a super-majority of both the legislature and the voters, so it's pretty much out of the question ... if my understanding is correct.)

Morrigoon · 11-17-2008, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

The sad truth is there is NOTHING to do.

According to a post in the OCEC facebook group, the other thing to do is to be sending emails/letters to our public officials who are being flooded with communication from the other side, and remind them that we support them protecting equal rights.

Information here

Quote:

Taking action is simple and free with EQCA’s Action Center.

Prop 8 must be overturned and we need to let the leaders who are standing with us know how much we appreciate their support.

The other side is flooding them with critical emails. It is up to each of us to make sure they get more emails from those who support equality than from those who continue to attack us.

Please, email our elected leaders who are standing with us today. And urge everyone you know to do so as well.

Gemini Cricket · 11-17-2008, 11:50 AM

Written by Cleve Jones (gay activist) and Dustin Lance Black (screenwriter of Milk):

Quote:

It has been 30 years since Milk gave his life in our struggle for equality. We will not wait 30 years more. We demand that the federal government act immediately, decisively and unequivocally to ensure equal protection under law throughout the United States of America.
We call on President-elect Barack Obama, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid to draft and submit to the Congress comprehensive legislation protecting the civil rights of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender citizens in all areas, including civil marriage, military service, adoption, Social Security, taxation, immigration, employment, housing and access to health care, social services and education.

Source

innerSpaceman · 11-17-2008, 04:27 PM

Sending letters to those politicians is a nice idea, but there will be no recall effort against them, and their amicus brief is already filed with the court. So there's no direct advantage to maintaining their support, but it certainly couldn't hurt ... and if you're ok with an email, that link Goonie provided makes it too easy not to do.

BUT ... we can't send letters to the Supreme Court Justices ... and they are the people making the decision, they are the ones who may face recall for the courage of their convictions.

11-17-2008, 09:04 AM	#271
Snowflake lost in the fog Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: San Francisco Posts: 7,831	I was too far away, but it seemed to be a great crowd on Saturday at City Hall/Civic Center. Since we had to be at the library, we melted away through that crowd. I (and my NJ houseguest) later joined a march through North Beach, quite by accident, with a police escort. It was fun, though freakin hot for SF this time of the year. The crowds lunching and walking along Columbus were waving and whistling and showing great signs of support. It was a great experience and I actually did run into a few people I know. __________________ Be yourself; everyone else is already taken. - Oscar Wilde
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11-17-2008, 09:07 AM	#272
Cadaverous Pallor ohhhh baby Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Parental Bliss Posts: 12,364	600 seems really high for Irvine. __________________ The second star to the right shines in the night for you
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11-17-2008, 10:08 AM	#273
Not Afraid HI! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 17,108	So, what's next?
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11-17-2008, 10:43 AM	#275
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	The sad truth is there is NOTHING to do. In fact, the protests, demonstrations and rallies ARE what have to continue for the next 6 months in an effort to show public support for a California Supreme Court decision repealing the Prop 8 vote as an illegal revision. There are only two tracks of action ... and they are indeed the current lawsuits before the California Supreme Court, and another ballot measure for 2010. There is no direct action that can be taken to speed or influence these two processes. But since the Mormon Culthood will mount a recall effort of any justices who vote to repeal Prop 8, it is vital that public support remain highly visible until they make their decision. The 100,000+ people who participated nationwide on Saturday is a big help, but it will be the support in California that really matters to our Supreme Court judges. I'm pinning a lot of my hopes on those court cases, but wiser folks than me insist chances are 50/50 at best. The other route, the much more involved, much more expensive route is to prepare and wage another ballot measure battle, for November 2010 - two years from now. It's not like we'd have to wait two years to get started. Rather we should concentrate on public demonstrations for 6 months ... relatively inexpensive and easy ... until the Supreme Court ruling. If that doesn't go our way, it will indeed take 18 months of constant work and millions upon millions of dollars to bring this before the voters again with any chance of winning. So for us right now, I think the fun thing to do would be to come up with some more creative-type demonstrations that might make the news ... and continue to make the news and involve people for the next 6 months. And during that time, getting and keeping as many people involved will be paramount ... because if the court ruling goes against us, we will want to try a volunteer-basis signature drive to get the Prop 8 repeal measure on the ballot. We would need one million signatures ... and identifying and marshalling those one million people before the start of the 150-day signature gathering period will not be easy. It's never been done on a volunteer basis in modern California politics. A professional signature gathering effort costs about $3 million in this State. That would be $3 million less to spend on a campaign that might cost upwards of $30 million. So I'm not sure what kind of "game plan" Gemini Cricket has in mind. But no one's gonna come down from on high and tell us what to do. We have just as much power to come up with a good idea or plan as anyone else, spread it on the internet, and see if it catches on or not. I agree Pink Holidays and Days Without Gays may not be enough. But we need six months worth of newsworthy stuff, so every little bit helps.
	Submit to Quotes

11-17-2008, 10:48 AM	#276
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	Don't know nearly enough of the law here. The argument challenging Proposition 8 is that it was is actually a significant revision of the constitution and not merely an amendment, right? If this argument loses, Prop 8 becomes part of the constitution. Wouldn't a new ballot proposition reversing prop 8 then much more clearly fall into trouble for being a significant revision (explicitly reversing what it says seems significant to me) to the constitution? Therefore, just to be safe, shouldn't there be an effort to get the state legislature to do their necessary part before getting an anti-Prop 8 prop on the ballot in 2010?
	Submit to Quotes

11-17-2008, 10:56 AM	#277
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	Nope, from what I understand, if Prop 8 can amend the constitution by revising the constitution, then Anti Prop 8 can amend the constitution by revising the constitution right back. In other words, if the judges ok Prop 8 (which says marriage is between a man and a woman) as a valid ballot measure, then another measure which says marriage is between a man and a goat is just as valid. (That's not to say getting the legislature involved for a revision effort would not be wise, and would not be undertaken ... but a revision is pretty much not gonna happen either way. I think it requires a super-majority of both the legislature and the voters, so it's pretty much out of the question ... if my understanding is correct.)
	Submit to Quotes

11-17-2008, 04:27 PM	#280
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	Sending letters to those politicians is a nice idea, but there will be no recall effort against them, and their amicus brief is already filed with the court. So there's no direct advantage to maintaining their support, but it certainly couldn't hurt ... and if you're ok with an email, that link Goonie provided makes it too easy not to do. BUT ... we can't send letters to the Supreme Court Justices ... and they are the people making the decision, they are the ones who may face recall for the courage of their convictions.
	Submit to Quotes