Who's your Daddy?

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

(my father is one of them).

But are you sure he's your father?

[tracilicious]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

"Forced" as in "pressured by society". There are still plenty of people who think that the only way to live is heterosexually married and with 2.5 kids, and decry anyone who says otherwise (my father is one of them).

I diefinitely see the point, and I somewhat agree. I think that one's smaller societal group might pressure someone to commit when they don't want to, i.e. friends, neighbors, family, etc., but I think society as a larger entity is very noncommital. In fact, I'd say it's an opposite kind of pressure. Everything is about instant gratification, living for oneself, or for the moment, etc. I think society actually makes it more difficult to stay committed to a monogamous relationship, not less so.

Either way, a person should have the moral integrity to be honest with him or herself prior to commiting. If one doesn't want a monogamous relationship, than one shouldn't commit. I think the society excuse is sometimes too heavily relied upon.

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by tracilicious

In fact, I'd say it's an opposite kind of pressure. Everything is about instant gratification, living for oneself, or for the moment, etc. I think society actually makes it more difficult to stay committed to a monogamous relationship, not less so.

Either way, a person should have the moral integrity to be honest with him or herself prior to commiting. If one doesn't want a monogamous relationship, than one shouldn't commit. I think the society excuse is sometimes too heavily relied upon.

I completly agree with you. I have seen the desire for immediate gratification growing while the "disposability" of relationships has increased. Having gone through our own personal trials in marriage, I can say that having a committed, monogomous relationship can be incredibly challenging but also more rewarding than anything. It takes maturity to have that kind of commitment and respect the other person enough to remain monogomous. Not everyone can do it or understands and respects the grave consequences that enivetably happen wothout it.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

I completly agree with you. I have seen the desire for immediate gratification growing while the "disposability" of relationships has increased. Having gone through our own personal trials in marriage, I can say that having a committed, monogomous relationship can be incredibly challenging but also more rewarding than anything. It takes maturity to have that kind of commitment and respect the other person enough to remain monogomous. Not everyone can do it or understands and respects the grave consequences that enivetably happen wothout it.

That's what works for you, and that's fantastic. But I find it hard to believe that that's the only viable option, that it's right for everybody. Because as far as I've seen, nothing is right for everybody.

[Not Afraid]

Well, I'm am fortunante enough to have done enough things "wrong" and seen my friends do many wrong things to know that committed relationships are hard and it takes a lot of maturity to successfully pull it off. Again, I bless being 40 and experienced.

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by tracilicious

Either way, a person should have the moral integrity to be honest with him or herself prior to commiting. If one doesn't want a monogamous relationship, than one shouldn't commit. I think the society excuse is sometimes too heavily relied upon.

I think most people enter into a monogamous commitment with the full intention of remaning so, but time and life circumstances often intervene to make that more difficult than anyone ever realized in the first blooms of love. In other words, I don't think people enter these relationships dishonestly or without integrity, rather they do it perhaps with a bit of ignorance - how well do you really know yourself at 18?

So it doesn't surpise me the people will sometimes stray, and I understand the desire not to hurt spouse and family, by fessing up to something that ultimately may have little meaning to you in your life - which is one scenario.

From an objective stand point it seems clear that being honest is best (especially now since such indiscretions can be more easily detected and harder to cover up) but how it all happens depends on your relationship with your partner(s), whether you can talk through the difficult moments and support one another when times are bad.

[FEJ]

Next can we talk about who is right on abortion and religion?

my opinion is:
If one is ok and comfortable in their own skin, while not harming others in the process, then live and let live. (please don't start a debate of symantics on the above mentioned topics) I don't always agree with the way people live, and somtimes it frustrates me cause they don't think the way I do. Then again, I dont have to live in heir skin. (*grabs chainsaw* ..hee hee ...YET )

If it works for you, great. if it doesn't, change. but be true to yourself.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by ubergeek42

If it works for you, great. if it doesn't, change. but be true to yourself.

Bingo, well said.

know that committed relationships are hard and it takes a lot of maturity to successfully pull it off.

Absolutely. No matter what kind of relationship it is. Monogomous or otherwise, if people aren't communicating and being truthful with each other, disaster is assured.

Which brings us back to my original point, that being that as long as heterosexual monogomous relationships are the only variety accepted by societal structures, people who have no business being in that kind of relationship will continue to be unable to communicate their needs and desires truthfully to themselves or others, which will continue to result in more infidelity than would otherwise.

I stress again, of course, that I don't purport that this narrow analysis accounts for all problems. Just because someone cheats doesn't mean, "Hey, what the really need is a non-monogomous relationship!" And certainly not everyone who has entered an open non-monogomus relationship did so because they had issues or would have been driven to cheat otherwise. And just as I don't feel that tolerance of homosexuality won't lead to an apocalypse of homosexual behavior in our society and the downfall of the institution of marriage, I wouldn't expect tolerance of non-traditional relationships to render the traditional relationship obsolete either. It would simply allow the small percentage of people for whom that's a viable option to be true to themselves, as ubergeek put it.

Edit: And I might add that the need for truthfullness extends beyond the ability to discuss alternative lifestyles, I was just keying off of €'s question, "But is it even possible to get to a level of acceptance for certain sexual practices – such as extra-marital sex." Honestly, that probably accounts for a very tiny amount of trust problems in marriages. It's equally important to engender honesty regarding ALL things sexual/realational. Whatever it is, if there's a problem in a relationship but you feel like you're not "supposed" to talk about it, that ain't good.

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Whatever it is, if there's a problem in a relationship but you feel like you're not "supposed" to talk about it, that ain't good.

I completely agree. Talking out issues is key to any relationship, marital or otherwise. However, acting on those issues, is quite a different thing. Married does not bean you are dead, attractions happen, but, personally, I am not naive enough to think that I could act on those attractions without some sort of damage to my marriage. It happens. I can guarantee that. I've experienced it. And, 99% of the outcomes are not good ones. I was lucky - after many years of pain and hurt. So, it doesn't make sense to me at all. My marriage comes first. Period.

[€uroMeinke]

To circle back to the original situation, if you remove the elements of sexuality what you really have is the ethics of keeping secrets and betraying confidences. As a dissintereted 3rd party (the Doctor) what should he or she divulge and to whom?

I think we're all pretty clear that the best situation is where a couple is honest with each other. But this is an example of where they are not.