When "oops" just doesn't cut it.

[scaeagles]

Apparently, the Italians didn't even tell US authorities that they had arranged for her to be released.

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20050...0131-5769r.htm

How then could the US forces NOT shoot at the car speeding toward the checkpoint (assuming that it was)?

[Motorboat Cruiser]

I've changed my opinion on this story more than once. I'm not sure we have enough information yet to really determine what went wrong.

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

I've changed my opinion on this story more than once. I'm not sure we have enough information yet to really determine what went wrong.

Heh, starting with why we are there in the first place...

[wendybeth]

Here's an account from someone who is familiar with the area in which this took place. I have no idea of the politics of this person, as I don't normally read his stuff, but it's a good article: Friendly fire incident

[innerSpaceman]

Yes, all this 'barrelling towards the checkpoint' is in dispute by many of the parties involved, as is the U.S. claim of hand signs and flashing lights. Also in dispute is the U.S. being informed of this car headed towards the airport with the rescued journalist. All of it is in dispute; and why on earth would I take the Pentagon's word for anything that is disputed? Not to say that the Pentagon is lying, but why would I assume they are the ones telling the truth when anyone else on earth claims they are not?

I can just imagine how many trigger-happy car shootings have taken place with less famous vehicle occupants where we never even hear of any dispute. I am not about to automatically discount the one incident high profile enough for the dispute of the military version of events to even become public.

There may never be enough information to determine what exactly happened. The journo claims she was warned by her captors that the U.S. would try to assassinate her. She said she laughed that off .... until the U.S. opened fire on her vehicle and tried to kill her. Are assassination plans by the U.S. military a little too black-helicopter for you? If so, I think you're being a bit naive about what goes on in war.

[Jazzman]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Not to say that the Pentagon is lying, but why would I assume they are the ones telling the truth when anyone else on earth claims they are not?

No offense, and I applaud your own premium snarkiness, but that anyone out there is making claims that the Pentagon is lying is kind of a weak point. I could easily find just as many people who claim that their fish told them that the Lobster Gods are coming back in a comet to take everyone home. Point being, the claim isn’t that solid, what with the lack of any actual evidence. I would argue, however, that common sense would tell you that battle weary soldiers in the field (who are everyday folks like you and I and everyone else who posts here) would be a little skeptical of a suspicious car rapidly approaching their position, especially when most of the guys over there have lost friends in attacks that began under very similar circumstances.

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

I can just imagine how many trigger-happy car shootings have taken place with less famous vehicle occupants where we never even hear of any dispute. I am not about to automatically discount the one incident high profile enough for the dispute of the military version of events to even become public.

Do you have any evidence to support such a thinly veiled accusation? Or is the implication that there have been covered-up car snipings just an unfounded opinion?

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

There may never be enough information to determine what exactly happened. The journo claims she was warned by her captors that the U.S. would try to assassinate her. She said she laughed that off .... until the U.S. opened fire on her vehicle and tried to kill her.

Which is a wild accusation. All reports I have read state that the soldiers fired at the engine block, which is an obvious attempt to disable the car. If assassination were the goal, I have no doubt that everyone in the car would be dead, and not much of the car would be left.

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Are assassination plans by the U.S. military a little too black-helicopter for you? If so, I think you're being a bit naive about what goes on in war.

I have to ask, after reading this, if you have actual, personal military ops experience. Because this statement is pretty loaded. It is just as easy to say that anyone who actually believes in black helicopter assassinations is being more than a bit paranoid, and that seems to make more sense than what you said.



And again, I really mean no offense. I’m not trying to be adversarial here, and I sincerely respect your opinions. I just can’t help but object to a lot of the things you posted here and also can’t help but suspect that your own stated opinions about the current administration and the situation in Iraq may be coloring your views here, in this instance.

[Scrooge McSam]

Originally Posted by Jazzman

<snip>anyone out there is making claims that the Pentagon is lying is kind of a weak point.

Only to those who have chosen to accept at face value anything they're told by this administration.

Originally Posted by Jazzman

I could easily find just as many people who claim that their fish told them that the Lobster Gods are coming back in a comet to take everyone home.

I hate to call anything an outright lie, but that comes as close as anything I've ever read. Can any poster who makes such a ridiculous claim be taken seriously?

Originally Posted by Jazzman

Point being, the claim isn’t that solid, what with the lack of any actual evidence.

I can't help but wonder just what you would call "actual evidence". How much evidence do you need to convince you of the fact that this administration has not been truthful with you. Did you miss our little performance in front of the U.N.? Did you miss Ms. Rice's lying before Congress? If congressional testimonies and signed documents do not constitute "actual evidence", I don't know what does.

Originally Posted by Jazzman

I would argue, however, that common sense would tell you that battle weary soldiers in the field (who are everyday folks like you and I and everyone else who posts here) would be a little skeptical of a suspicious car rapidly approaching their position, especially when most of the guys over there have lost friends in attacks that began under very similar circumstances.

You'll find no argument from me on this point.

Originally Posted by Jazzman

...and also can’t help but suspect that your own stated opinions about the current administration and the situation in Iraq may be coloring your views here, in this instance.

As are yours.

[SacTown Chronic]

Originally Posted by Jazzman

I just can’t help but object to a lot of the things you posted here and also can’t help but suspect that your own stated opinions about the current administration and the situation in Iraq may be coloring your views here, in this instance.

Sadly, it would be equally true to say that most stated opinions about the current administration, and the situation in Iraq, are formed based on the previous actions of this administration. That is to say, if you are going to be a lying weasel then you better be prepared to be called a lying weasel. You simply cannot live an immoral life filled with secrets, lies and misinformation and then become indignant when you tell the truth and people don't believe you.

[Name]

Umm.......Wow..........To all the "black helicopter" theories, and other theories about assasination attempts on this lady. I had many an opportunity to get to know many marines, most very similar to the ones that are over there now, black ops guys they are not, but just normal(loose definition) guys just wanting to do their job well and stay alive. I am sorry, but I give our military guys the benefit of the doubt when it comes to self preservation in an area like that where car bombings are a norm, and could happen at any time.

Originally Posted by ISM

If so, I think you're being a bit naive about what goes on in war.

sorry, not gonna let this comment slide, I do know what goes on during war, and in my opinion, if we were going to assasinate someone, we have by far better methods then what you alleged. After all, it is said all's fair in love and war, but this was, I believe, just a mistake. Marines trigger happy, no, wouldn't be possible and in my opinion, rightly so at times, slow reactions can and have killed many people.

/jumps off soapbox

[SacTown Chronic]

Originally Posted by Name

sorry, not gonna let this comment slide, I do know what goes on during war, and in my opinion, if we were going to assasinate someone, we have by far better methods then what you alleged.

While I may have no clue as to whether this was an assasination attempt or an accident caused by understandable skittishness, I do know that the woman was headed out of the country and any assasination attempt would come with limited, time-is-of-the-essence, options. So a sloppy whacking would be understandable under the circumstances.

Though I agree with your assesment, Name, that most guys over there are good people who just want to do their jobs well and stay alive, I could also say the same about the guards at Abu Graihb. Orders is orders, as you well know.