Mumbai under siege

[innerSpaceman]

It's a party! I think the crossing line is pretty far out there.


But here's the example the mystery person used that got me to thinking.


Japanese party. Kimonos, Geisha costumes, paper lanterns. Charming, yes? Many guests used glue or something to slant their eyes! Um, wait a minute ... somehow less charming to me, and more mocking. But where is that line, and isn't it different for everybody?

[€uroMeinke]

I think the line is all about intent - are you celebrating, or are you mocking? - culturwise anyway

Black humor is a whole other thing and I think by definition intentional (or at least potentially) offensive. Time helps soften the blow, would anyone blink at having a mock guillotine at a Bastille Day party?

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Yes, exactly, I think the line differs from person to person. And I have no problem with the party - I just wanted to loop in the discussion I had on my other board to try to give some perspective to the situation, as to why someone would feel that way.

The Geisha argument is a staple of the anti-cultural-appropriation movement, I think. The first argument I witnessed was started over a pair of Ed Hardy boots with Geisha on them. Several people were strongly, adamantly opposed to them. I just thought they were pretty. We were much at odds - demonstrating exactly that the line is different for everyone.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

I think the line is all about intent - are you celebrating, or are you mocking?

The line for me is all about intent, anyway. You've captured my feelings on it very well. But I think that line is different for some people... my acquaintances who started the argument feel very strongly that ANY wearing/using/decorating with another culture is appropriation and harmful to the culture in question. I don't agree.

[Prudence]

I think that Americans have a history of "appropriating" aspects of various cultures with no intent to honor or appreciate that culture - sort of a manifest destiny of cultural attributes. As a result, other cultures aren't so likely to take our themed parties as a bumbling sort of respect, but rather a combination of zoo visit and "playing native."

Avoiding such theming, on the other hand, might lead back to isolationism. Should I not eat at "ethnic" restaurants because to me the food is "neat-o!" and not routine comfort food my mom used to make? Should I not see foreign language films because I can't appreciate them the same way a native speaker would?

Of course not. The best I can do is try to express that I'm following these experiences because I'm genuinely interested in something that I find valuable and worthwhile, and while I'll never have a complete contextual understanding of what it means to be someone I'm not, by attempting to emulate their activities perhaps I will have a better appreciation for the contributions of others - both historic and contemporary.

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

The line for me is all about intent, anyway. You've captured my feelings on it very well. But I think that line is different for some people... my acquaintances who started the argument feel very strongly that ANY wearing/using/decorating with another culture is appropriation and harmful to the culture in question. I don't agree.

Would that mean I'd be forced to live out my life in Lederhosen? Is anything outside your own "Cultural Dress" not appropriated from something else?

I understand the reasoning somewhat - but I still think its wrong as this stuff is so transient anyway even the "traditions."

[LSPoorEeyorick]

That was my exact position in that argument, actually. I even used the word "Lederhosen," since the largest portion of my Heinz 57 European background is German. I also understand the reasoning (and try to follow a similar personal pattern as Pru mentioned) but, as always, the extremists baffle me.

[innerSpaceman]

Well, we all know how much I love dress-up. If that's nasty appropriation for the length of a genial party ... then fvck 'em! Get a grip.


However .... the slant-eye thing got to me - because I think my uber-pale vampire complexion is going to look stupid in Indian Garb, and I was actually thinking of darkening my skin with tanning agents for Bollywood night. Uh-oh. Is this a step too far in the wrong direction?

To me it's all about fun and fashion play. But I've never been accused of being the most racially sensitive person.



Anyway, bring on the guillotine, yes. But hold the burning Taj Mahal for at least a few years.

[Not Afraid]

If our Bollywood party isn't a celebration and appreciation of Bollywood culture, I don't know what is. How many of you have seen a popular Bollywood film (or 10)? How many of you regularly listen to Bollywood soundtracks, Najma, Bally Sagoo, Asha Bohsley, or even Ravi Shankar. I would guesss that the closest most people come to Ravi Shankar is Nora Jones. I would suspect that many have eaten some sort of Indian food, but have you eaten Dhosa for breakfast? (Not that I'm promising anything.)

The world is a large, varried and wonderful place. There are many takes on what's right, what's wrong, were you go after you die, what is appropriate in love and lust, how you celebrate holidays - why wouldn't ANYONE want to learn about, experience or celebrate these differences?

EVERY culture has it's extremists, those who feel that hate is the way to lead your life. No matter what culture they are attached to, I find them all very sad. But, I will never throw out the wonderful parts of a culture because of the extremists. That would only make me one of them.

This NYE, we will be celebrating the joy and color that is Bollywood and, by extention, the beauty, art, culture and cuisine of one of the most fascinating countries in the world. If someone finds this racist, then feel free to stay at home and comsume Wonder Bread and Tang.

[€uroMeinke]

okay so these concepts of cultural appropriation have got me wondering about things like Contemporary Japanese Pop Culture - is it okay to appropriate that, since it was already appropriated from contemporary American Culture? Or is it doubly wrong for being multi-appropriated?