Miscellaneous Movie Musings

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Thanks for the counterpoint. I figured there'd be more to it, though the Zapruder film (and its suppression) is all I need to know something was fishy...anyway, not going to derail the movie thread with a JFK conspiracy conversation.

[flippyshark]

Indeed - that would be an awful derail - and we have other threads better suited for that sort of thing already. (plus, the nets are just chock full of resources pro and con, more than enough to occupy the rest of ones life if one were so inclined.) I will include here a single link, which details 100 things that Stone got wrong (according to this source), which is unlikely to change anyone's mind about the actual assassination, but will give one pause before buying anything Stone puts forward as factual. It's interesting reading, but I end my own participation here. I don't know nothin' bout it.

[flippyshark]

Speaking of Oliver Stone, I have to admit that I am looking forward to W, which probably won't do the cause of righteousness any good, but it does look damn entertaining. I always keep a salt shaker nearby for this kind of thing though.

[alphabassettgrrl]

Yeah, historical "reality" political movies are often entertaining, but not something to take as the Ultimate Truth.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by alphabassettgrrl

Yeah, historical "reality" political movies are often entertaining, but not something to take as the Ultimate Truth.

Hear, hear. I'm also looking forward to W, though it may be the most cringe-worthy film I'd see all year.

[Alex]

Just finally watched Thunderbolt, a 1995 auto racing Jackie Chan movie. This one was a big buzz back then even though it never released here because it was the first movie where he used a stunt double for parts of fight scenes.

He was still recovering from the foot he broke filming Rumble in the Bronx, but that was no consolation to us hangers on. The reputation had been marred and it was a sign the man was getting old.

Somehow I never actually saw the movie. Only two real fight set pieces and while the stunt double was never obvious to me, the real indication he was hobbled is the fight editing. A lot of cuts, a lot of close shots that don't really show the whole thing. Slow motion where it really serves no purpose.

Culminates in what may be the most ludicrous car race ever filmed.

But overall standard early to mid-90s Jackie Chan fare.

[innerSpaceman]

Well, on CP's suggestion, I watched JFK again last night. It's one of my favorite films, and well deserving of that status.

Firstly, we don't have to agree with its politics for it to be a great film, but that helps. But it's a virtuoso piece of filmmaking. Of course, I happen to agree with its politics, and I don't find anything in it not backed up by fact and truth.


Sure, I suppose there are other verions of Garrision's story that differ. But this is Garrison's story as told by him. Maybe he's lying. But it's HIS story, and I think he's entitled to tell it the way he wants. Stone's film is based, in large part, on his autobiographical accounts.

As I've also alluded to, but will NEVER delve into on the internet again, my completely non-exhaustive research has led me to less than a handful of contradictions with any of the assassination-related material in the film. In fact, I was amazed at how much veracity was in this picture. Tons of little throw-away details could have been dramatized, but they were presented as actually happened.

(As for whether it's accurate vis-a-vis Clay Shaw, I have no idea ... and will have to defer to flippyshark's verdict of decidedly not.)




In any event, whether you believe in the conspiracy of the assassination or not, whether you believe in the justice of Garrison's quest to prosecute some of those allegedly involved ... it's still a fantastic bit of filmmaking that stands out stylistically and editorially. And it's a moving piece of work.

[Ghoulish Delight]

What I came away from JFK with was that the details aren't even important. Shaw, O'Keefe, Ferrie, note that none of them are even mentioned in Garrison's final courtroom rundown of the day.

The important thing is that once you see the Zapruder film and conclude that no rational human being could watch that and conclude that Kennedy was hit from behind, then you HAVE to believe that there was at least a 2nd shooter, and you HAVE to believe that the Warren Commission willfully covered that detail. That's the lynch pin.

Garrison's details are circumstantial. He knew as much. Those details may be right, may be wrong. In all likelihood, there's a good deal that is right and a good deal that is wrong. And, considering the nature of the conspiracy, in all likelihood every individual up and down the line has been fed a different truth, just enough to get them to play their part. So contraditctions are bound to appear, purpopsefully designed by whomever was really running the show.

As Garrison said in the film, Clay was nothing more than a toe hold. Maybe his version was inacurate, but Clay and all the others had SOMETHING to do with it, that is pretty clear, and worth taking the risk of being wrong just to shine a light on it.

That said, I found the film's attempts to be sympathetic towards Garrison to be a bit heavy handed. It was obvious that they were trying very hard to vindicate him and say, "Is he really crazy, or the sanest man in the country at the time?" The fact is, he was a paranoid consipracy theorist. He had to be to think like he did.

But then, I forgive it becuase while this movie perhaps went too far in being sympathetic to him, it's a fair bet that the portrayals in the media that have lead people like JWBear to vilify him are equally exagerated. So maybe he deserves a measure of vindication.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

The important thing is that once you see the Zapruder film and conclude that no rational human being could watch that and conclude that Kennedy was hit from behind, then you HAVE to believe that there was at least a 2nd shooter, and you HAVE to believe that the Warren Commission willfully covered that detail. That's the lynch pin.

That's true, but watching the Zapruder film doesn't lead me to that conclusion and nothing in JFK changed that. An entertaining movie, though.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

But then, I forgive it becuase while this movie perhaps went too far in being sympathetic to him, it's a fair bet that the portrayals in the media that have lead people like JWBear to vilify him are equally exagerated.

Correction - Mr. Delight says he meant Flippyshark, not JW.