War is peace

[PanTheMan]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

Ok- here is understanding-
They have said they want peace- but only peace under the law of Islam
Islamic law considers us infidels unless we are Muslim- and if we do not convert we are to be killed rather than tolerated.

Do you plan to convert for them?

Have you read the Iraqi Costitution? (Proposal) The One Bush and Co. are touting as a 'success'? Read Article 7 if nothing else. They WANT an Islamic State in Iraq. This is why our soldiers are dying? to create an Islamic State?

I would have LOVED to have seen Bush and Co.'s faces when they read article 7. Must have turned a shade of greenish blue.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

Iraq was not the only topic, and by no means the only place we are at war. Outside the bubble of Iraq is a much bigger issue. Radical Islam who would put many people you love up against the wall first because they are the worst of the infidels.

But, as PTM just highlighted, the war in Iraq now runs completely contrary to your supposed goal of eliminating Islamic rule. It's taken a huge step backwards and has created a haven for terrorists and introduced MORE Islamic rule to the region than there was before. And yet, it was justified using the terrorism excuse. How? Well, we're back to the original point. War is peace. Once the American public latched onto that concept, justifying war was easy. And building of the same concept, that we must fight for peace, the administration actually enacted policies to covertly incite terrorism to give them an excuse to counter attack (look, murder plans in handy Power Point format!). This preemptive stuff is total crap. It runs counter to everything that we're supposedly protecting. The ends do not justify the means.

[Morrigoon]

If that's what the Iraqis choose for self-government, and it doesn't affect us, who are we to dictate in what manner they should SELF-govern? Or are you suggesting we take away their freedom to choose the manner in which they're governed?

[PanTheMan]

GD- Justifying War uses the same concepts often as justifying Racism. If you somehow make them "Less human", you will have far greater support.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Morrigoon

If that's what the Iraqis choose for self-government, and it doesn't affect us, who are we to dictate in what manner they should SELF-govern? Or are you suggesting we take away their freedom to choose the manner in which they're governed?

No, at this point, the ball is in their court, but look at the faulty logic here. If we're in Iraq because of terrorism, and the way to stop terrorism is to rid the world of Islamic rule, then what exactly have we accomplished here?

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

But, as PTM just highlighted, the war in Iraq now runs completely contrary to your supposed goal of eliminating Islamic rule. It's taken a huge step backwards and has created a haven for terrorists and introduced MORE Islamic rule to the region than there was before. And yet, it was justified using the terrorism excuse. How? Well, we're back to the original point. War is peace. Once the American public latched onto that concept, justifying war was easy. And building of the same concept, that we must fight for peace, the administration actually enacted policies to covertly incite terrorism to give them an excuse to counter attack ([url=http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Proactive_Preemptive_Operations_Gr oup)look, murder plans in handy Power Point format![/url]). This preemptive stuff is total crap. It runs counter to everything that we're supposedly protecting. The ends do not justify the means.

Sorry- I don't know what PtM highlighted- but I will continue the discussion with you- though I admit to being woefully unable to participate fully.

The concept of peace through strength and therefore by war does make sense to me-as for more Islamic rule, I have to ask, is it radical rule? Is it rule that demands our conversion or death, or it is simply what they chose to base their freedoms on?

Haven? You have foreign insurgents coming in to cause trouble in Iraq- like honey to a bee. Yes, I know you have heard that before.

Again- sorry, not fully engaged today.....

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

Haven? You have foreign insurgents coming in to cause trouble in Iraq- like honey to a bee. Yes, I know you have heard that before.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2005Jan13.html

But the council's report suggests the conflict has also helped terrorists by creating a haven for them in the chaos of war.

...

Before the U.S. invasion, the CIA said Saddam Hussein had only circumstantial ties with several al Qaeda members. Osama bin Laden rejected the idea of forming an alliance with Hussein and viewed him as an enemy of the jihadist movement because the Iraqi leader rejected radical Islamic ideals and ran a secular government.

I wish I could find it, but I read an article a couple days ago that said that a significantly larger portion of the "insurgents" than previously thought are not insurgents at all, but are coming from within Iraq.

[Morrigoon]

Well, it's entirely possible that my acquaintance was mistaken. However, it's equally possible he was talking about a language other than Arabic. I wish I knew...

It was really the best explanation I'd heard as to why it was the educated ones trying to harm us. Damn, now I have to find a new theory.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Morrigoon

It was really the best explanation I'd heard as to why it was the educated ones trying to harm us. Damn, now I have to find a new theory.

Most likely, it's like I said. Education enough to read the material; money, and therefore time, enough to spend time on it. The poor and uneducated just don't have the resources to commit.

[Morrigoon]

Ah, I see what you're saying about the leisure time, that's an excellent point.