Israel, Lebanon, and Gaza - Page 4

wendybeth · 07-14-2006, 08:02 AM

Whatever the reason and methodology for Irael's existence, the fact remains that they do exist and have the same right and reason to continue as we do. (We didn't exactly take over this country without causing serious harm to the natives). They have demonstrated that they want to live in peace and have been rebuffed too many times to count. They have a right to defend themselves, and Hamas and Hezbellah know perfectly well that their actions are beyond provocative. I believe they are emboldened by their association with Iran, and no doubt are acting up under the direction of Iran's leaders. Personally, I hope they (Israel) kick ass.

Nephythys · 07-14-2006, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wendybeth

Whatever the reason and methodology for Irael's existence, the fact remains that they do exist and have the same right and reason to continue as we do. (We didn't exactly take over this country without causing serious harm to the natives). They have demonstrated that they want to live in peace and have been rebuffed too many times to count. They have a right to defend themselves, and Hamas and Hezbellah know perfectly well that their actions are beyond provocative. I believe they are emboldened by their association with Iran, and no doubt are acting up under the direction of Iran's leaders. Personally, I hope they (Israel) kick ass.

Someone hold me- I agree with everything she just said.

Moonliner · 07-14-2006, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I personally have no doubt Iran is behind the escalation of actions by Hezbollah. Irans leader Aminadabooboo (or whatever) has said hey have no righ to exist. What better way to escalate it? Hezbollah does get lots of their funding frmo Iran.

I could see Israel doing something similar to their 1981 (was that the year?) bombing of and Iraqi nuke facility.

I think the biggest risk comes from Iran taking action against Israel. They have already said that if Israel does anything to Syria hat there will be grave consequences.

What matters is not what we think, or what's true. What matters is what they think and from what I'm hearing on news reports they believe Iran is acting against them via Hezbollah. Of course a large part of the issue in this region is the lack of central authority. Lebanon is not launching rockets at Isreal, Iran did not kidnapp soldigers, but a few radical individuals in each country did take sme part in those actions. Do you hold all of Lebanon responsable for the actions of Hezbollah? Apparently so if you are Isreal. I expect the same will hold with them and Iran. If they can show a radical element in Iran gave orders to Hezbollah ((or even just think) then they will condem the entire country.

innerSpaceman · 07-14-2006, 08:09 AM

Yes, scaeagles, I am comparing the Israelis to the Nazis. Not that their aims are the same, rather their methods.

Illegal occupation of foreign lands, mayhem and murder of civilians.

Gemini Cricket · 07-14-2006, 08:25 AM

And people ask me why I like Disneyland so much, why I go to the movies so often and why I do theatre which transports the audience to some place else... It's because this world can be so sad and infuriating sometimes.

Disneyland anyone?

scaeagles · 07-14-2006, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Yes, scaeagles, I am comparing the Israelis to the Nazis. Not that their aims are the same, rather their methods.

Illegal occupation of foreign lands, mayhem and murder of civilians.

I again appreciate you complete lack of mincing words. However, I still think the comparison in any form is ridiculous.

scaeagles · 07-14-2006, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonliner

Do you hold all of Lebanon responsable for the actions of Hezbollah?

This comes to the question I posed earlier - who is responsible for the death of civilians when the terrorists who mount attacks take shelter amongst them? I do not subscribe to school of thought that would blame those taking reprisals. The blood lies with the cowardly instigators who utilize such tactics.

ETA: Damn right, WB.

innerSpaceman · 07-14-2006, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

- who is responsible for the death of civilians when the terrorists who mount attacks take shelter amongst them? I do not subscribe to school of thought that would blame those taking reprisals. The blood lies with the cowardly instigators who utilize such tactics.

Would the same have been true of the American revolutionaries? They "hid" (aka lived) among the civilian population, as do all guerilla fighters. Are you going to absolve the British of all Colonial deaths in their aim to route out the Revolutionary guerillas? Or is it a matter of whose side you're on?

Alex · 07-14-2006, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nephythys

I suppose I should understand someone who is an athiest ignoring the Biblical history of Israel- it was not created out of guilt. We did not give them anything-

I'm not ignoring it, but oddly I don't use the Bible as a handbook for modern geopolitics. The Biblical history is the hook on which the claim to the land is made, guilt (I'm not talking about WWII but the pogroms of the late 1800s that eventually lead to the Balfour Declaration) and anti-semitism (some factions saw it as a way to get the Jews out of their country) is the reason the Western world gave it to them.

As a practical result, I pretty much agree with wendybeth. Israel is there and it has a right to defend itself. But it is a problem created by sloppy thinking 60-80 years ago and the beef on both sides is easy to understand. Attempts to force Israelites out of their homes are seen as an act of violence while generally ignoring the original act of violence (in the sense that territorial confiscation is considered an act of violence) that initially put them in those homes.

But if god wants the Jews to have Israel it is another example of this deity's general stupidity that they can only have it by being in a perpetual state of war or semi-war. And it was just plain spiteful of it to let other people live there for 2,000 years before giving it back. Frankly, I don't see what it is that you like about this god, it's something of a prick.

Not Afraid · 07-14-2006, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

Frankly, I don't see what it is that you like about this god, it's something of a prick.

Beautiful!

07-14-2006, 08:02 AM	#31
wendybeth Nevermind Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,847	Whatever the reason and methodology for Irael's existence, the fact remains that they do exist and have the same right and reason to continue as we do. (We didn't exactly take over this country without causing serious harm to the natives). They have demonstrated that they want to live in peace and have been rebuffed too many times to count. They have a right to defend themselves, and Hamas and Hezbellah know perfectly well that their actions are beyond provocative. I believe they are emboldened by their association with Iran, and no doubt are acting up under the direction of Iran's leaders. Personally, I hope they (Israel) kick ass. __________________
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07-14-2006, 08:09 AM	#34
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	Yes, scaeagles, I am comparing the Israelis to the Nazis. Not that their aims are the same, rather their methods. Illegal occupation of foreign lands, mayhem and murder of civilians.
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07-14-2006, 08:25 AM	#35
Gemini Cricket ... Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,244	And people ask me why I like Disneyland so much, why I go to the movies so often and why I do theatre which transports the audience to some place else... It's because this world can be so sad and infuriating sometimes. Disneyland anyone?
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