Political Persuasion- how did you get there?

[Nephythys]

I wanted to say thanks for making this thread interesting-

Seeing as I am the OP- I will say that I do not oppose civil discussion or debate if you will- in regards to certain views or how and why people hold them.

If we can't challenge each other with civility- it's just not as much fun.

[SzczerbiakManiac]

Originally Posted by Strangler Lewis

By the way, why shouldn't the state or federal government be in the business of providing "charity?" By government charity, I assume you don't want to pay to help poor people.

If someone doesn't want the government to help poor people, it does not automatically mean that person doesn't want to pay to help poor people. There are far better ways to assist the poor.

Originally Posted by Strangler Lewis

What else don't you want to pay for, directly or indirectly? Social security? Farm subsidies? Tax credits to industries? Public schools your kids don't attend? Maintenance on roads you don't drive?

It should not be the government's job to provide charity (including the ones you mentioned) Charity works best when run by private organisations who actually have to answer to those who donate to them. And besides, is it really "charity" when you're forced to donate? If Mr. Lewis comes to my door and threatens to kidnap me and throw me in his dungeon until I donate to Jerry's Kids, am I really making a charitable donation? I don't think so.

Originally Posted by Strangler Lewis

Government is just one form of organization and human action.

True, the worst example of it. It's bloated full of waste because it doesn't have to answer to anyone and is too big to manage effectively.

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by SzczerbiakManiac

If someone doesn't want the government to help poor people, it does not automatically mean that person doesn't want to pay to help poor people. There are far better ways to assist the poor.
It should not be the government's job to provide charity (including the ones you mentioned) Charity works best when run by private organisations who actually have to answer to those who donate to them. And besides, is it really "charity" when you're forced to donate? If Mr. Lewis comes to my door and threatens to kidnap me and throw me in his dungeon until I donate to Jerry's Kids, am I really making a charitable donation? I don't think so.
True, the worst example of it. It's bloated full of waste because it doesn't have to answer to anyone and is too big to manage effectively.

Private charitable organizations are big business, and they vary greatly in how much actually goes to the object of charity as opposed to the well paid administrators. The executive directors of these groups do not answer to the man on the street; they answer to 1) their board members, who usually are not averse to seeing people make a nice living and throw nice parties and 2) the IRS, who eventually will yank a charity's tax-exempt status and then, bye-bye charity.

You can't deny that tax policy shapes people's willingness to donate to charities (or buy homes). Repeal of the estate tax has greatly affected charitable giving. The increasing reach of the alternative minimum tax in states like California beyond the truly rich will do so as well.

I don't think all the charities in the countries put together could manage the welfare and food stamp programs as effectively as the government does, or feed and shelter the millions that they would have to if these programs were eliminated.

I assume you don't mean the part about not wanting to pay for public schools or road upkeep.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Despite the OP's blessing, I'd rather that this thread NOT turn into a forum to butt heads the way the religious thread did. We have plenty of other active discussions that challenge each other's beliefs and perspectives, it'd be nice to have one where people can just express them without expecting a debate.

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Despite the OP's blessing, I'd rather that this thread NOT turn into a forum to butt heads the way the religious thread did. We have plenty of other active discussions that challenge each other's beliefs and perspectives, it'd be nice to have one where people can just express them without expecting a debate.

Hear, Hear!

[Nephythys]

Ok-

Though I think one would have to be blindly naive to think that telling people they support or are '"evil" for their politics doesn't demand a response.

Maybe there should be less moral judgements- and more sticking to the topic of what you believe politically and why- without pointing fingers.

Right?

[Strangler Lewis]

There's a bright golden haze on the meadow . . .

[CoasterMatt]

Poit!!!

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

Though I think one would have to be blindly naive to think that telling people they support or are '"evil" for their politics doesn't demand a response.

Don't worry, I'm sure iSm will happily oblige go call you evil at a future date in another thread.

I'm not proposing to ban all response and debate, and this wasn't an aministrative warning. Just a request to keep it to a minimum so as not to discourage people from sharing their own political histories, which is what I open this thread to find.

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

Ok-

Though I think one would have to be blindly naive to think that telling people they support or are '"evil" for their politics doesn't demand a response.

Maybe there should be less moral judgements- and more sticking to the topic of what you believe politically and why- without pointing fingers.

Right?

True that. But I really liked the idea of this thread as a place to see and tell personal paths towards present beliefs....if someone chooses to take that oportunity to just trash the beliefs of others instead of sharing their personal path I think that says more about them than the target of their attack.