Sometimes I hate being right

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by SacTown Chronic

You don't think guilt should be established before engaging in the heretofore un-American act of unprovoked aggression? Yikes!

GUILT WAS ESTABLISHED! Years and years of proof, reason, and motive- months and months of wrangling and warnings. You want to replay history, pretend your "side" knew they truth all along and was just hijacked by the mean nasty neo-cons. I find that laughable.

I am not doing this- I am not going to let you put words in my mouth either.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Name

I like to believe that the US citizens principles are principles that many of us strive to live by, and not just use when it is convinient to us.

Bingo. This country spouts how great our morals and values are, but refuses to apply them in our dealings with the rest of the world. What does that say about those values?

[SacTown Chronic]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

GUILT WAS ESTABLISHED!

Well then, what's Bush waiting for? Let's see those WMD.

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by Name

I like to believe that the US citizens principles are principles that many of us strive to live by, and not just use when it is convinient to us. And the only concern I have about not living our principles outlined in the constitution and considering them when dealing with NON-uniformed individuals that may or may not be terrorists is at that point we are no longer living by those principles, and living a lie. We then become arrogant, and better then the rest of the world. Which is also a lie, for this country was founded on the idea that all men are created equal, no matter on what the citizenship.

all men may be created equal- all men are NOT subject to our justice standard of innocent until proven guilty.

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Bingo. This country spouts how great our morals and values are, but refuses to apply them in our dealings with the rest of the world. What does that say about those values?

Because it's not a value- it's a standard of justice applied to US citizens entitled to certain legal protections as citizens.

[SacTown Chronic]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

You want to replay history, pretend your "side" knew they truth all along and was just hijacked by the mean nasty neo-cons. I find that laughable.

Nobody knew the truth, that's the issue isn't it? The administration swore they knew the "truth" but I fear the sky may be purple in their world.

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by SacTown Chronic

Well then, what's Bush waiting for? Let's see those WMD.

Sure- let's go into Syria and get them shall we?

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by SacTown Chronic

Nobody knew the truth, that's the issue isn't it? The administration swore they knew the "truth" but I fear the sky may be purple in their world.

no wiggling out of it- you said dems were only guilty of being spineless and getting carried away by war mongers- that implies that if left to their own devices they would not have done this because they knew it was not "true"....and they would have done it differently.

This administration...HA. And heaven forbid if anyone bring up any other administrations stances on this because you all rule that out as sour grapes and dismiss it.....it's a useless conversation.

[SacTown Chronic]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

no wiggling out of it- you said dems were only guilty of being spineless and getting carried away by war mongers- that implies that if left to their own devices they would not have done this because they knew it was not "true"....and they would have done it differently.

Maybe they would have arrived at the same conclusion as the neocons, maybe not. But an invasion should have been a last resort.

John Kerry said on the day they voted to give authorization to Bush that his vote came with the caveat that every other possible avenue be explored before invading Iraq.

Can you, in good conscience, claim that Bush exhausted all his other options prior to invading?

[Name]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

Because it's not a value- it's a standard of justice applied to US citizens entitled to certain legal protections as citizens.

I guess I don't understand values then. I see it as a value, all the principles in the bill of rights. That was the whole reason they were put in, because they were the values that the people held and hold true.