The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Thanks for making assumptions about me, BTD. I guess since I don't sound like you in what I think I must not have any sort of clue at all!

When what's out there is "people need to be responsible for themselves" and "it's not my responsibility to pay for others who are less fortunate" it reeks of the rich get richer and poor get poorer mentality that I am sick of.

If you are against this plan but not overall reform then what do you suggest?

Not everyone has possessions to sell or family to rely on.

[JWBear]

That's fine and dandy, Leo, if you have a house or other resources. Not everyone is that lucky.

Even if you pay for insurance you have no guarantee that they will pay for your medical condition. There are a lot of people who have insurance, get sick, and are denied by their insurance company; and then we see them in our office.

What would you say to the parents of a child who was born with a congenital heart defect, but whose surgery to correct the defect was denied by the insurance company because it was a "pre-existing condition"? "Sorry, it's your problem, not mine." or "Sorry, you need to choose between losing your child and impoverishing yourselves because your insurance company needs to maximize profits in order to keep the investers happy."

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by JWBear

What would you say to the parents of a child who was born with a congenital heart defect, but whose surgery to correct the defect was denied by the insurance company because it was a "pre-existing condition"? "Sorry, it's your problem, not mine." or "Sorry, you need to choose between losing your child and impoverishing yourselves because your insurance company needs to maximize profits in order to keep the investers happy."

This is a horrible situation, and I admit I have no ideas for that specifically.

However, insurance companies are businesses. It is not unreasonsable to expect them to look to make a profit. It's why they are there. Is that heartless? I don't know. I fully admit HUGE nervousness when my three children were born, hoping there would be no complications or problems that would make them uninsurable, and great relief when they were healthy - for reasons other than insurance coverage as well, of course.

Please note I did not say they are always scrupulous in their dealings. For my daughters knee surgery, they denied the MRI that showed she needed it, but approved the surgery based on it. I'm currently appealing (and i don't know if this is common, but I haven't been required to pay the bill until the appeal is settled).

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

However, insurance companies are businesses. It is not unreasonsable to expect them to look to make a profit. It's why they are there.

So you're okay with decisions about your health being made based on whether some stock holders will make a profit or not?

Not, it is not unreasonable for a business to optimize for profit. I DO find it unreasonable for health care to be run as a business.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

So you're okay with decisions about your health being made based on whether some stock holders will make a profit or not?

Not, it is not unreasonable for a business to optimize for profit. I DO find it unreasonable for health care to be run as a business.

Then your problem is with health insurance companies even existing. I would take it then that the President's plan is inadequate in the scope then.

Trust me....insurance companies have about 40 years to catch up to make a profit on me. My surgery at the Mayo clinic was close to 6 figures. And covered. Perhaps i've just had a different experience than most. Mayo wasn't even a hospital that my insurance woulod cover. However, since the only doctors qualified to perform it were at USC, somewhere in Oregon, or in New York, after I went to three local surgeons who took my insurance that all said they were not qualified, they allowed me to go to the Mayo.

I do not regard it as them making decisions. I regard it as i have entered a contract with them for a certain amount of coverage with rules. I can pay more for more coverage, less for less. I am respsonsible to know what is and isn't covered. They are responsible to uphold their end of the bargain. Should they not, it is certainly a pain to deal with, and in matters of life and death, the delay can certainly cost lives, which is not acceptable.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Then your problem is with health insurance companies even existing. I would take it then that the President's plan is inadequate in the scope then.

Correct.

Trust me....insurance companies have about 40 years to catch up to make a profit on me.

It's more than whether your individual insurance is adequate for YOU. It's about people who are denied insurance and therefore are entirely on the outside of the system. Yes they can rely on inadequate emergency services, or make the major financial sacrifices discussed before, or make deals with their dr. to pay things off, but that still leaves an entire class (or classes) of people with inferior medical choices that could cost them their life in the long run simply because insurance companies decided that covering them hurts their bottom line. I simply will never think it is okay that a person's access to health care is linked to either how much money they have or how much money someone else is willing to spend on them. Money is not a measure of value of human life.

[alphabassettgrrl]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Not, it is not unreasonable for a business to optimize for profit. I DO find it unreasonable for health care to be run as a business.

I agree with this. I think health care should not be run for profit in the way it currently is. Individuals to get a paycheck- ok. Insurance companies to make zillions of dollars by denying care and claims? Not so ok. In my opinion.

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Then your problem is with health insurance companies even existing.

I definitely have a problem with insurance companies. I despise them. I worked for a referral company for a while, and the approval process for claims and authorizations is appalling. I'm not sure what the answer is, but I dislike the current system.

[€uroMeinke]

I think the real interesting moral question here is if you break the law for health care for a loved one - steal, prostitute yourself, kill a stranger, etc. Health seems like one of those survival imperatives - you do what you need to do for someone you love consequences be damned.

[scaeagles]

I believe I also said I would incur whatever debt was necessary. You asked what I would do. I told you what I would do.

I think the best ideas have been on the Heritage Foundation website (simply www.heritage.org). I cannot provide specific links to them, but a simple googling of "Heritage foundation health care" provides a TON of info as to why Obamacare is not what is best and other ideas as well.

I am a huge proponent of medical savings accounts, as described here.

I think insurance plans should be able to be sold across state lines, as described in many places on the Heritage Foundation site. Choice and competition? That'll be a bunch of that.

I would recommend you read up on the stuff on the Heritage Foundation site. Simply too much to link.

The information on great conservative ideas is out there. Please note I did not say great republican ideas.

[mousepod]

I really like this.