The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[Alex]

I would assume that the view is it is a step down the slippery slope towards homosexuality.

Though it is unclear from the full comments whether he would consider this true only of boys and not girls. The comments were specifically about how to take advantage of young boys not liking gay stuff (except the gay ones, presumably). I'm sure he considers women and porn to be a good thing, so long as it his mistress and not his wife or daughter.

[scaeagles]

I don't see how lesbian porn can make one gay.

I will offer to be the test subject to see if watching lesbian porn can have such an effect.

[Alex]

Except that by getting caught they are no long in the category of being better at getting away with it.

The examples I read JWBear as using are the wiretapping, lying to get us into war, torture, disenfranchisement of minorities and the poor, etc.

But that runs into the issue I mentioned earlier of assuming that which is being debated. The problem is that for the opposition those things didn't happen or aren't bad in the way JWBear's side views it as bad.

I would agree with a statement that Republicans have been better at accomplishing their agenda on large issues than Democrats over the last 30 years. Whether those agendas is evil will be in the eye of the beholder.

[scaeagles]

ISM, do you want individuals or dems as a group? Individuals on both sides are a dime a dozen. Party wide....Keating 5 comes to mind, with 4 of the 5 senators involved being dems.

Or are you specifically interested in business corruption involving democrats?

[innerSpaceman]

Keating 5 goes a way back, don't ya think? Funny, tho, that if only 1 of the Senators was Republican, that's the only one that people remember as being involved, oh these many decades later.


Alex, I disagree with your contention that discovery equates to getting away with it. Shame among circles you hold contempt for anyway is not punishment. Criminal charges, civil judgments, where are these?

The only instance I can recall is Scooter Libby's conviction.



Scaeagles, yes - examples would have to be by individuals. I don't think it's either Republican or Democrat official policy to be corrupt.

To be fair, Dems haven't been in overwhelming power for a long time. So perhaps the big corruption scandals are yet to come. There were indeed, however, a dime a dozen during the Bush Years, and pretty serious during the Reagan years (um, Iran/Contra anyone?) and during the administration of that Nixon guy.

I don't recall any corruption scandals during the Carter presidency. The Clinton presidency had its sex scandal ... but, um, no one got hurt.



I'm not claiming innocence on behalf of anyone. I'm sure there's enough corruption to go around, at every level of government from dog catcher on up.

[scaeagles]

Elliot Spitzer was getting hookers.

Barney Frank admitted to paying a male prostitute.

Gov of Illinois....drawing a blank....selling Obama's senate seat.

Rostenkowski went to prison for misuse of public funds.

Torricelli was taking illegal gifts from lobbyists.

Sandy Berger was removing classified docs from the National archives.

Then there's John Edwards.

Governor of Arkansas Tucker was convicted of Fraud in the Whitewater deal.

That's just off the top of my head in about 30 seconds. With research I'm sure I could find a whole bunch more.

Please note I post these things only because of a direct inquiry from ISM. In no way am I saying that republicans do not have similar moral, legal, and/or ethical failings.

[PanTheMan]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Elliot Spitzer was getting hookers.

Barney Frank admitted to paying a male prostitute.

Gov of Illinois....drawing a blank....selling Obama's senate seat.

Rostenkowski went to prison for misuse of public funds.

Torricelli was taking illegal gifts from lobbyists.

Sandy Berger was removing classified docs from the National archives.

Then there's John Edwards.

Governor of Arkansas Tucker was convicted of Fraud in the Whitewater deal.

That's just off the top of my head in about 30 seconds. With research I'm sure I could find a whole bunch more.

Please note I post these things only because of a direct inquiry from ISM. In no way am I saying that republicans do not have similar moral, legal, and/or ethical failings.

and this is the GOP for just 9 months of 2007...

http://www.democrats.com/republican-scandals-2007

But the GOP Sex Scandals are the BEST!

http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/Republican_Sex_Scandals

[BarTopDancer]

If you're going to bring sex-scandals into it (and really, unless it's sex with lobbyists or something direct like that I don't care if they are having an affair) How many Democrat officials and how many Republican officials in the last 2 years have been caught in sex scandals? For some reason, it seems that a lot more Republicans than Democrats have been caught with sex-scandals.

The only reason they stick out to me more is because of their "pro-family values" hypocrisy, so I'm truly curious.

[scaeagles]

The only real sex scandal there was Edwards. The others involve prostitution, which (though most here don't think it should be) is illegal.

And I just can't stand Edwards, so I'll throw him out there even if it was just sex. And a kid. The man makes me ill. But wait.....he's white. How can I dislike him so much?

[Alex]

Let's see, sex-related scandals from Clinton years onward (some were more criminal than others). Or at least until I get bored of looking things up.

This proves absolutely nothing about anything. Just got curious.

Brock Adams (Sen. D-WA) - Retired rather than risk losing election after allegations of sexual assault were published in Seattle newspaper.
Sam Adams (Mayor - D-Portland, OR) - Sexual relationship with 18-year-old intern.
Bob Allen (Florida State Legislator, R) - Offered a blowjob to a policeman in a bathroom. Later claimed it was race panic.
Gary Becker (Maror, D-Racine) - Charged with child sexual assualt.
Ken Calvert (Rep. R-CA) - found by police naked in his car with a prostitute.
Henry Cisneros, Clinton HUD Secretary - Pled guilty to lying to FBI about payments he'd made to a former (pre-Clinton) mistress.
Bill Clinton, Governor/President - Jenifer Flower/Monica Lewinsky
Gary Condit (Rep. D-CA) - Affair with Chandra Levy revealed when she goes missing.
Larry Craig (Sen. R-ID) - Caught in police sting and accused of lewd conduct in an airport restroom.
Brian Doyle (Deputy Press Secreatary, Homeland Security) - Child pornography and child sexual assault.
Mike Duvall (CA State Assembly, R) - Caught on microphone bragging about affairs.
John Edwards (Sen, NC; presidential campaigner) - Had affair, likely fathered child.
John Ensign (Sen. R-NV) - Affair with campaign staffer.
Mark Foley (Rep. R-FL) - sent sexually explicit text messages to aides. Resigned.
Vito Fossella (Rep. R-NY) - Affair and child with mistress.
Newt Gingrich (Rep. R-GA) - Ongoing affair with aide and future wife
Samuel B. Kent (Federal District Court Judge) - Convicted for lying about sexually harrassing employees. Refused to resigned, impeached by Senate.
Kwame Kilpatrick (Mayor, D-Detroit) - Among many scandals, affair with his chief of staff.
Steve LaTourette (Rep. R-OH) - Wife accused him of having an affair with chief of staff. Denied. Later married his chief of staff.
Bob Livingston (Rep. R-LA) - Resigned in midst of Clinton impeachment when it was revealed he was having an affair.
Tim Mahoney (Rep. D-FL) - Replaced Mark Foley who is also on this list. Has admitted to affairs and buying off campaign staffer.
James McGreevey (Gov. D-NJ) - Affair with person he'd put on payroll.
Gavin Newsom (Mayor, D-SF) - Affair with wife of one of his staffers.
Bob Packwood (Sen. R-OR) - Sexaul harrassment, resigned when ethics committee voted to expel him.
Mel Reynolds (Rep. D-IL) - convicted of sexual assault, child pornography. Waited until he was sentenced to resign. Later pardoned by Bill Clinton.
Jack Ryan (Sen. candidate; R-IL) - Withdraw from campaign after claims of sexual proclivities from divorce records were released.
Mark Sanford (Gov. R-NC) - Affair with an Argentinian, abandoned office for a little while.
Don Sherwood (Rep. R-PA) - Admitted to sexual affair after police record from an abuse complaint were released by campaign opponent.
Eliot Spitzer (Gov. D-NY) - Involved with prostitutes.
Randall L. Tobias, Deputy Secretary of State (Bush) - DC Madam.
revealed during divorce with current wife.
Antonio Villaraigosa (Mayor, D-LA) - Affair with reporter.
David Vitter (Sen, R-LA) - Prostitution