Israel, Lebanon, and Gaza - Page 5

Nephythys · 07-14-2006, 10:13 AM

Your loss.

Gemini Cricket · 07-14-2006, 10:18 AM

I don't have much to add to this thread, but whenever I think about war and the Middle East, I always always think about this Dave song:

"The Last Stop"

Silence is poetry

Fire
The sun is well asleep
Moon is high above
Fire grows from the east
How is this
Hate so deep
Lead us all so blindly killing killing
Fools we are
If hate's the gate to peace
This is the last stop
For raining tears

War
The only way to Peace
I don't fall for that
Raining tears

You're righteous, so righteous, so righteous
You're always so right
Go ahead and dream
Go ahead believe that you are the chosen one
Raining tears
Oh no

Gracious even God
Bloodied on the cross
Your sins are washed enough
Mother's cry
"Is hate so deep
Must a baby's bones
This hungry fire feed?"
As smoke clouds roll in
The symphony of death
This is the last stop
Scream

Right is wrong now
Shut up you big lie
This black and white lie
You comb your hair to hide
Your lying eyes

You're righteous, so righteous, so righteous
You're always so right
But why your lie
Go ahead and dream
Go ahead believe that you are the chosen one

This is the last stop
Here there's more than is showing up
Hope that we can break it down
So it's not so black and white

This is the last stop
Here there's more than is showing up
Hope that we can break it down
So it's not so black and white

You're righteous
You're righteous
You're righteous
You're always so right
But there you are nailing a good tree
Then say forgive me, forgive me
Why

Go ahead and dream
Go ahead believe that you are the chosen one

Raining tears
This is the last stop
Here there is more than is showing up
But I hope that we can break it down
It's not so black and white

This song is so powerful. If you get a chance, listen to it. It's filled with anger, grief and the few notes at the end lead us possibly to happiness. It's wonderful. There's this yell he does in this song that's so intense that it brings me to tears every now and then. Not to mention that every instrument on the planet is in this song.

I love my Dave.
(Sorry for the derail.)

Edit to replace the first set of lyrics I posted. The second set is much more accurate.

scaeagles · 07-14-2006, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Or is it a matter of whose side you're on?

Certainly a fair question, and I will not deny that my perception of right and wrong comes into play, as does yours.

Not being as knowledgable as I should be on the revolutionary war, I don't completely know the tactics of those involved on either side.

I suppose there is a difference between being in the military and having a home, and a hit and run mentality. Should I be in the Continental army, and I head out and find a patrol of Redcoats and ambush them and run away to my home where my children are, and the Redcoats have followed me and I won't come out, then yes, I am responsible for the deaths of my children when they burn my house down. I have chosen to hide where my children are and place them in harms way.

Should I be a soldier and in the Continental army, and I'm out on the battlefield, and the British find out where I live and go and take my children and kill them to discourage others from joining the Continenal army, then I would blame the British for taking the battle to where the innocents are even when they knew who they were looking for was not there.

I could go on and on with situation analogies, but I'll give one more. Let's say I'm growing crops and feeding the Continental army. The British would have every justification for burning my crops. I add this as a pseudo comparison to Israel bombing airstrips in Lebanon to prevent support of terrorist activities from those airstrips.

Alex · 07-14-2006, 10:23 AM

What about a decision to kill thousands of civilians because military targets are too fortified and you don't want to put your own soldiers at risk in attempting to get at them? And therefore by killing civilians you hope to pressure the leadership of the other side into surrender?

Ghoulish Delight · 07-14-2006, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I could go on and on with situation analogies, but I'll give one more. Let's say I'm growing crops and feeding the Continental army. The British would have every justification for burning my crops. I add this as a pseudo comparison to Israel bombing airstrips in Lebanon to prevent support of terrorist activities from those airstrips.

So your home is a valid target for anyone we go to war against since the tax revenue that it generates helps fund our troops.

Not Afraid · 07-14-2006, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nephythys

Your loss.

Was this for me or for Alex?

Alex · 07-14-2006, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nephythys

Your loss.

Yes, I'm sure I'll suffer for eternity for want of a prick god to worship. Though I suppose I should be in fear that New Testament God is reverting to Old Testament God and will begin murdering my family one by one until I agree to worhsip him; fortunately I don't have much contact with my sisters so all I'll be out are some flowers for the funerals.

Perhaps the current situation in Israel is a sign that he has fallen off the wagon of the 12-step anger management program that he's been in since the birth of his first child. We all thought fatherhood had mellowed him but then he started nipping at the hooch again and we all know that God is a mean drunk.

scaeagles · 07-14-2006, 10:32 AM

That could be a reference to Hiroshima and Nagasaki (because I'm a bit slow on the keyboard and of the mind today I'm taking about Alex's post, #44 of this thread). Probably the biggest example of that I can think of.

Another fine question, which again I will admit partially comes down to the side I'm on. I can cite all the arguments that everyone knows as justification of those two bombings, but it is still an issue that basically comes down to what Alex is alluding to.

Nephythys · 07-14-2006, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

Yes, I'm sure I'll suffer for eternity for want of a prick god to worship. Though I suppose I should be in fear that New Testament God is reverting to Old Testament God and will begin murdering my family one by one until I agree to worhsip him; fortunately I don't have much contact with my sisters so all I'll be out are some flowers for the funerals.

Perhaps the current situation in Israel is a sign that he has fallen off the wagon of the 12-step anger management program that he's been in since the birth of his first child. We all thought fatherhood had mellowed him but then he started nipping at the hooch again and we all know that God is a mean drunk.

Ignorance looks so good on you.

But don't worry-I would not dream of wasting my time discussing it with you.

Nephythys · 07-14-2006, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

Was this for me or for Alex?

Does it really matter?

07-14-2006, 10:13 AM	#41
Nephythys Yeah, that's about it- Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In a state of constant crap to get done Posts: 2,688	Your loss.
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07-14-2006, 10:18 AM	#42
Gemini Cricket ... Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,244	I don't have much to add to this thread, but whenever I think about war and the Middle East, I always always think about this Dave song: "The Last Stop" Silence is poetry Fire The sun is well asleep Moon is high above Fire grows from the east How is this Hate so deep Lead us all so blindly killing killing Fools we are If hate's the gate to peace This is the last stop For raining tears War The only way to Peace I don't fall for that Raining tears You're righteous, so righteous, so righteous You're always so right Go ahead and dream Go ahead believe that you are the chosen one Raining tears Oh no Gracious even God Bloodied on the cross Your sins are washed enough Mother's cry "Is hate so deep Must a baby's bones This hungry fire feed?" As smoke clouds roll in The symphony of death This is the last stop Scream Right is wrong now Shut up you big lie This black and white lie You comb your hair to hide Your lying eyes You're righteous, so righteous, so righteous You're always so right But why your lie Go ahead and dream Go ahead believe that you are the chosen one This is the last stop Here there's more than is showing up Hope that we can break it down So it's not so black and white This is the last stop Here there's more than is showing up Hope that we can break it down So it's not so black and white You're righteous You're righteous You're righteous You're always so right But there you are nailing a good tree Then say forgive me, forgive me Why Go ahead and dream Go ahead believe that you are the chosen one Raining tears This is the last stop Here there is more than is showing up But I hope that we can break it down It's not so black and white This song is so powerful. If you get a chance, listen to it. It's filled with anger, grief and the few notes at the end lead us possibly to happiness. It's wonderful. There's this yell he does in this song that's so intense that it brings me to tears every now and then. Not to mention that every instrument on the planet is in this song. I love my Dave. (Sorry for the derail.) Edit to replace the first set of lyrics I posted. The second set is much more accurate.
	Submit to Quotes

07-14-2006, 10:32 AM	#48
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	That could be a reference to Hiroshima and Nagasaki (because I'm a bit slow on the keyboard and of the mind today I'm taking about Alex's post, #44 of this thread). Probably the biggest example of that I can think of. Another fine question, which again I will admit partially comes down to the side I'm on. I can cite all the arguments that everyone knows as justification of those two bombings, but it is still an issue that basically comes down to what Alex is alluding to.
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07-14-2006, 10:23 AM	#44
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	What about a decision to kill thousands of civilians because military targets are too fortified and you don't want to put your own soldiers at risk in attempting to get at them? And therefore by killing civilians you hope to pressure the leadership of the other side into surrender?
	Submit to Quotes