With Sept 11 coming up...

[Alex]

Well, on road and utilities the profit motive is maintained, the government just pays for it to mediocre results. And if you don't think anybody derided the interstate system as socialist, that's because you weren't there when it was being debated. I do think the FDA should be abolished as a federal agency, or if it exists should only be an advisory organization like the Consumers Union. And I have no idea how good the federal government would be at running a utility, it never has.

There are a lot of people who only do research because they want to help people. But I would guess there are a lot more people who do research because they want to help people, it pays reasonably well, and there is a chance for a huge jackpot. Most people pick professions based on financial reward. Government service hardly ever offers much financial reward.

I'm not necessarily opposed to nationalizing healthcare, but if you do you have to nationalize the whole thing and live with the fact that innovation will go down. Nationalized industries are just a form of monopoly and you can't expect them to operate much differently than any other monopoly (bloat, inefficiency, poor service, disinterest in innovation).

And you think health care is politicized now, just imagine what it would be like when politicians actually run the entire system and senators are the ones debating how large a dose of medicine X should be covered and for what purposes.

Also, I would argue that much of the reason for the spiralling cost of health care is because most Americans are way overinsured (because government regulation has, proabably irrepairably, broken the health care marketplace) which makes it almost impossible for the ones that aren't insured at all.

[Alex]

Eh, disregard my continued derailing of the thread.

It's covered territory, irrelevent to whether Bush muders 6,000 Americans so that he could have a war to avenge his daddy, and I haven't the energy to persue it.

[wendybeth]

Yeah, my apologies also- I don't know that I am for nationalizing medicine, but things are so very crappy now there may come a day that we have no choice.

Anyway........

[innerSpaceman]

Hehehe, maybe we should have kept it all in the general political thread anyway.


That'll show FEJ not to start any new threads 'round here, young upstart.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by FEJ

Have you watched this documentary? It is a little long, but worth watching. Also please read the rest of the site for more background.

It has some good points... What is your opinion? Would they stoop so low? I wouldn't put it past them.

I wouldn't put it past them, but I also wouldn't give them that much credit. It would imply that this Administration would be smart enough to do it.

There's a lot of funky scenarios out there. I don't know what to believe.

My own thoughts? Well, I wonder how 2 buildings hit differently fall the same way. Also, I heard that the rubble was sent to China. (I don't know if that's fact or not.) But why there? It's like the ending of 'Raiders' or them dumping the body in the junkyard in 'Pulp Fiction'... never to be seen again...

[innerSpaceman]

Just FYI, the weight of the buildings left them each with no option but to fall straight down upon themselves. Something that heavy simply cannot fall to any side.

(as explained by engineers in one of the helpful links elsewhere in this thread)





Ohhh, the original versions of the Star Wars trilogy are due to come out on DVD at midnight on September 11th (into 12th), and I was planning on having a bonfire to burn the hated "uber-special edition" DVDs that came out a couple years ago. Because of the date, I intend to have a replica of the WTC as the centerpiece of the bonfire. Tasteless, I know ... but how can I resist when I already have a bonfire scheduled for that date??

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

My own thoughts? Well, I wonder how 2 buildings hit differently fall the same way. Also, I heard that the rubble was sent to China. (I don't know if that's fact or not.) But why there? It's like the ending of 'Raiders' or them dumping the body in the junkyard in 'Pulp Fiction'... never to be seen again...

Initially all of the rubble was removed to the aptly named Fresh Kills Landfill on Staten Island. Fresh Kills was a very famous landfill (the largest in the world at one point) and had just been permanently closed a few months before 9/11. After 9/11 it was reopened for the WTC debris and everything was taken there for forensic examination and body part searches.

Once that was complete salvagable recyclable materials (such as steel and whatnot) were sold as scrap. China is a huge processor of scrap metal recycling so I wouldn't be surprised if much of it did end up there. Everything else still remains in Fresh Kills Landfill and has been covered with earth so that the area can move forward with the original post-closure plan to turn the area into reclaimed wetlands and recreation area.

There is a vocal minority group of 9/11 family members who are trying to get the area declared a burial ground or have the remaining debris dug up and removed to another location that can be treated as a burial ground. They feel that even though all larger body parts were removed that the ashes must contain bits and pieces of people. The official position is (or was when I last heard about it) that such a move would be way too expensive, that it would be impossible to get all the debris, and that the dead have been memorialized in many ways already.

[Gemini Cricket]

This just came out today. Interesting.

Some staff members and commissioners of the Sept. 11 panel concluded that the Pentagon's initial story of how it reacted to the 2001 terrorist attacks may have been part of a deliberate effort to mislead the commission and the public rather than a reflection of the fog of events on that day, according to sources involved in the debate.
Suspicion of wrongdoing ran so deep that the 10-member commission, in a secret meeting at the end of its tenure in summer 2004, debated referring the matter to the Justice Department for criminal investigation, according to several commission sources. Staff members and some commissioners thought that e-mails and other evidence provided enough probable cause to believe that military and aviation officials violated the law by making false statements to Congress and to the commission, hoping to hide the bungled response to the hijackings, these sources said.

Source

[innerSpaceman]

Asimov-fears be damned ... i welcome the day when everyone in health, police, justice and government is a robot.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Asimov-fears be damned ... i welcome the day when everyone in health, police, justice and government is a robot.

It works for Alex Trebek apparently...

"We regret the insinuation that Mr. Alex Trebek is a robot, and has been since 2004. Mr. Trebek's robotic frame does still contain some organic parts, many harvested from patriotic Canadian schoolchildren, so this technically makes him a 'cyborg,' not a 'robot.'"

Source