The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[Alex]

It is certainly a valid point of view to say "even if the current way sucks, it is my view that the alternatives would be worse in aggregate."

Also valid to say "the current system sucks and should be changed but this particular solution would be worse."

My problem with much of the opposition on the right is that they say the latter and behave the former.

[scaeagles]

So...let's say the highest numbers out there are accurate and 48 million people are uninsured (i do not subscribe that figure). This means that 252 million Americans are insured.

You are saying that it is unfair that 252 million people have something that you do not. Because of that, you would impose a change on the 252 million people that have it.

Of course, I won't claim to say that all 252 million people are happy with it. I'm not always happy with mine (had to pay a lot for the knee surgery and rehab the daughter had). I also won't say that all of the uninsured really want insurance (if they have to pay) because some have other priorities for their money).

I understand there are problems with the current system. However, this does not mean I think the proposed fix is a good idea, and it does not follow that I think nothing should be done. It just means I don't think this shoudl be done.

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

So...let's say the highest numbers out there are accurate and 48 million people are uninsured (i do not subscribe that figure). This means that 252 million Americans are insured.

You are saying that it is unfair that 252 million people have something that you do not. Because of that, you would impose a change on the 252 million people that have it.

Maybe. Sixteen percent strikes me as a high failure rate for something that's fairly basic. As an absolute number, 48 million people is huge. If there was a world without public education and sixteen percent of the country (48 million people) was not getting a basic education, I would hope we would impose a change on everybody else or come up with a public option.

[BarTopDancer]

Leo - what would you do if either you or your wife lost their job and insurance wasn't available. Or you both lost your jobs.

Now you have to use your savings and UI to live off of and pay for COBRA.

Now your savings are gone and you can no longer afford COBRA.

Now you have no insurance.

What would you do?

Don't say it won't happen, because it can. It is happening to thousands of people across the country.

What would you do?

Originally Posted by scaeagles

However, this does not mean I think the proposed fix is a good idea, and it does not follow that I think nothing should be done. It just means I don't think this shoudl be done.

What's your suggestion then? Come up with something better.

[Betty]

[quote=BarTopDancer;308551]Leo - what would you do if either you or your wife lost their job and insurance wasn't available. Or you both lost your jobs.

Now you have to use your savings and UI to live off of and pay for COBRA.

Now your savings are gone and you can no longer afford COBRA.

Now you have no insurance.

What would you do?

Don't say it won't happen, because it can. It is happening to thousands of people across the country.

What would you do?
[\QUOTE]


And COBRA is oh so affordable when you've lost your job... I used to feel the same way SCA. It was someone elses problem... I had insurance so sure, I could see the importance of it, but it wasn't urgent. Things sure do change when it's your family that's affected. My health insurance wasn't all that great - or so I thought until I had none. I didn't know how good I had it.

And letting go of COBRA had to be done. I got a bill for nearly $3,000 for one month. OMFG! Just can't afford it. Well I could - but we would just pay for that and be homeless.

Health care is out of control.

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by Betty

And COBRA is oh so affordable when you've lost your job.

It's not. I couldn't afford it, even with the subsidization.

Seriously Betty, look into a catastrophic policy through Anthem Blue Cross. At least for the kids. Or do the kids qualify for the MediCal for kids program?

[Betty]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

It's not. I couldn't afford it, even with the subsidization.

Seriously Betty, look into a catastrophic policy through Anthem Blue Cross. At least for the kids. Or do the kids qualify for the MediCal for kids program?

We're looking into a few options actually - the school just sent home some info and a family friend is going to quote us on a catastrophic policy. Thanks!

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by Betty

We're looking into a few options actually - the school just sent home some info and a family friend is going to quote us on a catastrophic policy. Thanks!

No prob! My parents did mine through the internet and it was pretty affordable. Hope it works out for you.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

What would you do?
What's your suggestion then? Come up with something better.

What would I do? While I certainly don't admire my dad in the least, I would do exactly what he did during my mom's lupus and his unemployment...I would take on the debt. Would I want to? No. Not for a moment. But you do what you have to. He declared bankruptcy a few years after her death. it happens. It sucks, but it happens.

So many think thast those who are opposed to this plan must not know what it's like. Here's news for you - I do.

I also will NOT be forced to offer a better plan simply because I don't like what's being offered. Not required. That being said, there are PLENTY of ideas out there I like better. While so many here do not like the site, the heritage Foundation site has had (I haven't been there in the last week or so, so I cannot guarantee that the things I read are still there) plenty of ideas I like, including medical savings accounts, opening insurance availability across state lines, etc.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

plenty of ideas I like, including medical savings accounts, opening insurance availability across state lines, etc.

All of which retain the key ingredient that who gets/deserves medical benefits comes down to a business decision, something I will always consider wrong.

Not that the plan as currently going through Congress changes that, but instant-socialization isn't going to happen, but if it's going to happen this will have to do as the awkward first step.

And therin lies the problem, the two sides disagree on the endpoint. I do not believe that any amount of tweaking to bolster free-market forces is going to solve the problem, simply because I believe the problem is an innevitable, even necessary, part of any free-market solution. In the free-market there are, by design, economic losers. That's just fine when it means someone goes without a big TV or a fancy car. It is not fine when it means someone goes without adequate health care.