The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[Ghoulish Delight]

I'm too angry to compose a coherent post about my reaction to this story.

They've arrested the wrong couple.

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

I'm too angry to compose a coherent post about my reaction to this story.

They've arrested the wrong couple.

That's disgusting and sickening. I hope additional charges are brought on the 'leadership' that encourages this.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

That's disgusting and sickening. I hope additional charges are brought on the 'leadership' that encourages this.

To be clear, I absolutely think this is horrid, that the parents should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, and that to teach this is sickening.

However, to go down the road of prosecuting those who advocate such behavior is dangerous.

We would have to areest and prosecute leaders on the Church of Scientology and the Jehovah's witnesses for telling their followers not to take their children to doctors.

We would have to arrest and prosecute Islamic leaders who have taught the concept of honor killings that have led to a recent story in Phoenix where a man ran over his daughter and killed her because she was too westernized.

I'm sure there are all sorts of examples.

I think those teachings are ridiculous and dangerous and harmful. But are they prosecutable? Do we want such laws? I don't know if I want the government telling anyone what they cannot teach no matter how reprehensible what they are teaching is.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

We would have to arrest and prosecute Islamic leaders who have taught the concept of honor killings that have led to a recent story in Phoenix where a man ran over his daughter and killed her because she was too westernized.

To tie it closely to this example:

What would you say about an Islamic leader who created books and websites that said, "You should kill enemies of Islam. Here are specific techniques to do so most effectively. Here are the materials you need to carry out the killing as I've described, and here's the best places to buy those materials at the best prices. And you should do it. Do it or Allah will punish you. Do it or you are an evil person."?

That is what we're dealing with here. A couple that has created a step-by-step blueprint for child abuse, have created a platform to sell this blueprint, and say in no uncertain terms, "Do it. Whip your child. Hit your child with hard rubber tubing. Do it you're an evil person. Do it or they will be evil people. Do it or God will punish you. Do it." This is leaps and bounds beyond "suggesting" and "advocating". It leaps and bounds, in my opinion, straight to "incitement".

[Strangler Lewis]

If during a church service the preacher called the family up to the pulpit, listened to the tale of misbehavior, handed the parents a rod and encouraged a deadly beating that immediately happened, he certainly could be prosecuted. On the facts from the article, he probably only gets prosecuted on Law and Order.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Charles Manson.

[Ghoulish Delight]

If there were a pediatrician who advised all of his patients to whip their children...

If there were a lawyer that advised all his clients to kill anyone who might testify against them...

I would have no problem saying those people should be arrested. Why should religious leaders get a pass when advocating, encouraging, teaching felonious behavior?

[scaeagles]

The pediatrician would lose his license to practice medicine. The lawyer would be disbarred (and their might be a conspiracy to commit murder charge in there, but I would suspect that it would be difficult to make stick). So you are suggesting that any authority figure, whether that person has real or perceived power over the decision making process of the individual, should be prosecuted if their teachings or suggestions lead to felonious behavior.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

So you are suggesting that any authority figure, whether that person has real or perceived power over the decision making process of the individual, should be prosecuted if their teachings or suggestions lead to felonious behavior.

In terms as black and white as that? No. But I do suggest that there is a line, ill-defined as it may be, and in my view creating a ministry focusing specifically on advocating felonious behavior (even if there were no death involved, the things advocated by these monsters are criminal) crosses that line.

[flippyshark]

It would take a far more knowledgeable person than I to figure out what the law says, or ought to say, about the border between free speech and criminal misuse of authority. I certainly place a greater share of the blame on the idiots who receive such "wisdom" and put it into merciless practice. It is also alarming to learn that this couple had plenty of supporters at their hearing, people who, on hearing about this tragic event, jumped to the defense of the abusers, all the while citing a bronze-age text that they have been told they must believe on pain of eternal torment.

Whenever faith-based behavior takes the lives of young children, it's time to loudly and publicly decry irrationality, and pointedly question the value of adhering to ancient texts, no matter how venerable and dearly loved. (I'm glad that many religious people cherry pick the nice parts out of their religious texts, but I hope they will start to see the value of bravely decrying the horrible parts in equal measure.)