A Prop 8 challenge for swankers

[Snowflake]

A friend just sent me the following. I do not know the legal ramifications of this, if there are any.

If you're angry that a church can meddle with another state's political statutes, here's something that you can do.

To report the LDS Church to the IRS, simply take 5 minutes to print these articles out and any others you can find:

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_10839546

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10842051

Then print and fill out http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f3949a.pdf

List the taxpayer as:

Thomas S. Monson, et al
50 East North Temple
Salt Lake City, Utah 84150

List his occupation as President and the business as the ridiculously full name of the church (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) at the same address.

Check the boxes for False Exemption and Public/Political Corruption.

Then in the Comments section demand that the LDS Church be fined and their tax-exempt status revoked for repeated and blatant violations of the IRS's separate of church and state rules, and for conspiring to interfere with a state's political process.

Check Yes under "Are books/records available?" and write in "campaign finance records."

You don't have to provide any of your own personal info. Mail the form and the printed articles to:

Internal Revenue Service
Fresno, CA 93888

[Gemini Cricket]

I was really happy I went to the protest last night. It helped to know that I was not alone in my disgust, anger and grief. Although I thought there was a lack of a "here's where we go from here" plan, I was glad to hear that the people leading the No on 8 campaign were just as unhappy as I was.

Now here's where it gets sticky. The people leading the rally called the Mormon Church out for funding the Yes on 8 campaign. And I am glad they did. Someone needed to do it. I am personally tired of being beaten down by religious groups who kick me in the face and then when there's a retaliation they hide and say 'don't hit me back, I'm a religion'. They can't come out and act like a PAC and then when there is resistance they act like a harmless church. They can not have it both ways.

I'm all for the high road. But it also bugs me when people defend close-minded Christians and say 'I'm a Christian, I'm offended by what you said'. Uh, yeah. If you're not defending the gay community when your church is preaching hate, then spare me your 'hurt feelings'.

And another thing. This is going to sound rough. I absolutely adore my friends and family members who spoke out against Prop 8. I appreciate the anger and grief you feel from the day Prop 8 came on the ballot to today. But part of me is frustrated because I have been feeling that same anger and grief now everyday for the past 10 years that I have been a gay activist and everyday since I came out of the closet 15 years ago. So I say to you, 'Welcome to the club. You should be hurt and angry. Thank you for joining in. Don't just tell me about how you're mad, show me that you're going to do something about it. We need your help.'

I want to share in Obama's win. I am very happy for him and our country. But it's hard to when rights were stripped from me. It's hard to have that hope when someone just kicked me in the teeth. There is an irony that some of the people who voted for Obama in the name of racial equality then voted against homosexuals in the name of religion. It is astounding that anyone who is a minority would gladly and freely take away someone else's rights. Let me be clear, I completely disagree with iSm's statement above. But I share in his anger at the hypocrites who say 'Yes we can' with Obama and then say 'No you can't' to the gay community in the same breath.

I am not about to defend iSm. His comment was completely and totally out of line. And I will vent my further frustration and point out to him that he has said a great number of things in the past that hurt and offended people to only take them back afterward. Know that the hurt still lingers even after a retraction, Mr. iSm. You need to filter that sh!t.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

This is going to sound rough. I absolutely adore my friends and family members who spoke out against Prop 8. I appreciate the anger and grief you feel from the day Prop 8 came on the ballot to today. But part of me is frustrated because I have been feeling that same anger and grief now everyday for the past 10 years that I have been a gay activist and everyday since I came out of the closet 15 years ago. So I say to you, 'Welcome to the club. You should be hurt and angry. Thank you for joining in. Don't just tell me about how you're mad, show me that you're going to do something about it. We need your help.'

This is the part I'm feeling guilt over. By nature I am not a demonstrative person. I am also not a joiner. Though much reduced over the years I still dread talking to people I don't know, especially if it could be confrontational.

When the Supreme Court ruling came down I said congratulations even though I don't think that the judiciary is the best way to achieve these victories. And I still feel that way, judicial victories before the general population is ready for them tend to inflame rather than settle. And therefore I could sit mostly on the sidelines, letting the main "combatants" slowly move the ball with me doing my small things to advance it and mostly not get in the way.

But, while I was willing to see it achieved (admittedly the more painful path I would not personally bear the brunt of) through the slow road of demographic change, the victory was still won.

And I was overconfident. Overconfident that while I was pretty sure the population wouldn't vote to give gay marriage, they also wouldn't vote to take it away.

And I was lulled. Lulled by the polls showing that while it would be dispiritingly close, it would still fail and that each year after that it would become increasingly unlikely anybody would ever again succeed at doing away with that victory.

So I gnashed my teeth at the Yes on 8 sign wavers. I resisted the urge to pull Yes on 8 signs out of the ground. I convinced myself that the Yes on 8 crowd could not be convinced otherwise, and fortunately for me (or so I thought) they don't need to be convinced. They would lose, and each year they would lose some more. And eventually they would be far enough in the loss column that they would have to hide their views in polite company and then they would begin to die out.

But I was wrong. And while I don't honestly believe a fuller participation on my part would have changed anything, I should have done it anyway.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

I appreciate that you regret saying it. Still, I have to voice my public opinion that it was way out of line.

[Gemini Cricket]

I have so much to say this morning.

But here's the email I just got:

There is a press conference and protest in front of the Mormon Church on Santa Monica just a few block from the 405 today at 2pm - I hope you will all join me there. Forward this information to everyone you know!

Sincerely,
Brandon Brawner
Board Member | Equality California
Voice:323-960-0830 | Fax:323-960-0840 | Cell: 310-497-6522
Email: brandonbrawner@eqca.org | Web: www.eqca.org

[Strangler Lewis]

I think picketing the Mormons is the wrong strategy. Rather than picket, gay people should take their disposable income and join the Mormon church. That would be a lot of tithes. Remember, when Utah wanted statehood, the grand poobah had a revelation that polygamy was wrong. It could happen again. Hell, if David Geffen signed on, they'd probably let him double as a Jew so long as he gave ten percent.

[Gn2Dlnd]

The actual intersection of the Mormon Temple is at Overland and Santa Monica, West of Beverly Glen, East of the 405.

Steve, you need to edit the offending line from your post. I don't really care if you feel justified in your anger or not. Fix it. We've had this nonsense from you before.

How do you know that I haven't had a serious talk with my roommate about some of the stronger things he's said? Pull your head out of your self-obsessed little ass and listen to me, with the exception of "faggot," there is no word or epithet that can be hurled at a white person that has anything like the hatred of the word you used.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Gn2Dlnd

Steve, you need to edit the offending line from your post. I don't really care if you feel justified in your anger or not. Fix it.

I'd love to, but that's not within my power. This is RICH coming from you. When I edited my offensive line in the past ... and did it with a joke ... you had a hissy fit and demanded that I be fired as a moderator.

So I was ... and now don't have the ability to edit my posts hours later.

Please feel free to ask a mod to edit it. I will support that request.

Originally Posted by Gn2Dlnd

...with the exception of "faggot," there is no word or epithet that can be hurled at a white person that has anything like the hatred of the word you used.

Well, we happen to disagree. I guess I have to go with societal norms, but I happen to personally and absolutely truly feel that blacks have been enormously successful at NULLIFYING the evil power of the "N" word by using it affectionately among themselves ... showing us all that a word is just a word, and the meaning and power is what we make of it.

I think it's absurd that they have achieved this fantastic thing with the "N" word ... but only blacks can utter it.


I constantly use FAGGOT for the same reason. Affectionately among my gay friends. I hope some day that everyone can use the formerly-disgusting word because we gays will have made it HARMLESS. And until everyone can use it, and not just gays, we have not achieved that goal.

I use the "N" word as my inspiration. Yeah, I still won't say it. I regret using it in my post. But I look forward to the day when the quest for it to lose all derogatory power will have been achieved, and that day won't come till it's usuable by whites as well as blacks, and is not a filtered word here on the LoT.



Still .... it was inappropriate to use it. My disgust for black people who voted for Obama with one hand while taking away my civil rights with the other remains. But just as it was not right for Latinos to spit on gays and call them faggot on Election Day ... and it was not right for me to use the "N" word in my ranting post.


I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Feel free to ask a mod to delete it.

[Alex]

But once that day is achieved you won't feel any desire to use it where you did. You weren't using it to dilute its harming impact, you were using it to exploit it.

So I'm not sure what argument you are making there. "I was angry so lashed out to hurt by using the word but the word shouldn't hurt if we use it enough" lacks a certain coherence.

But regardless, I've argue for leaving what has been said where it has been said.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Alex

But once that day is achieved you won't feel any desire to use it where you did. You weren't using it to dilute its harming impact, you were using it to exploit it.

Oh, absolutely.

But it would have been like me using "Pantywaste" to really mean something awful ... and it still would remain harmless because society has moved way beyond the hurtful effect of that word.


Ok, yeah, so maybe being an up-to-date guy I wouldn't have used "Pantywaste."

I'm not claiming I used the "N" word because I personally think it's meaningless. I used it for derrogatory effect because I know it's still taken that way if I as a white internet person use it (though, hello, unless you know me, you can't tell the color of my skin over the internet).

And yes, I thought it was completely appropriate turnabout on those black voters, seventy percent of them, who consider me and mine subhuman and, yes, absolutely the new n*ggers of the world - - ok to spit on, to dehumanize, to abuse and humiliate.

So Fvck Them and, yes, I liked throwing their stupid word back at them.


But it's just a stupid word ... and I remain congratutory of blacks on their road to disarming the word completely. Obviously, that's not yet done. And as long as they insist it's off limits to whites, it won't be done.


So, it's fine by me if you straight folk use "Faggot."