The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[flippyshark]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

But you have to love Ed Schultz of MSNBC encouraging voter fraud.

Ugh - that's awful.

[Gemini Cricket]

So some news sources are already calling the Massachusetts race a done deal and it's going to go to Brown. Jon Stewart nailed it yet again last night on his show.

"If this lady loses, the health care reform bill that the beloved late senator considered his legacy, will die. And the reason it will die... is because if Coakley loses, Democrats will only have an 18 vote majority in the Senate, which is more than George W. Bush ever had in the Senate when did whatever the f*ck he wanted to."

"It's not that the Democrats are playing checkers and the Republicans are playing chess. It's that the Republicans are playing chess and the Democrats are in the nurse's office because once again they glued their balls to their thighs."

[scaeagles]

The spin has already started and it is enjoyable to watch. Coakley was indeed a horrible candidate. No doubt. Regardless, Brown made it very clear that electing him meant a vote against the health care legislation. And to win running with that as a major point in your campaign and to win in perhaps the most left leaning state in the union speaks mightily as to what the public in general thinks about the health care legislation.

Of course that is not all of it. The dems find themselves in the same position that the Republicans did with Bush. Conservatives couldn't stand how Bush and the republicans were playing to the center so they lost a lot of their base and still were unable to secure the center they wanted. Obama and the dems are trying to secure the center, which they are losing, and are losing their base as well.

[flippyshark]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

The spin has already started and it is enjoyable to watch. Coakley was indeed a horrible candidate. No doubt. Regardless, Brown made it very clear that electing him meant a vote against the health care legislation. And to win running with that as a major point in your campaign and to win in perhaps the most left leaning state in the union speaks mightily as to what the public in general thinks about the health care legislation.

Of course that is not all of it. The dems find themselves in the same position that the Republicans did with Bush. Conservatives couldn't stand how Bush and the republicans were playing to the center so they lost a lot of their base and still were unable to secure the center they wanted. Obama and the dems are trying to secure the center, which they are losing, and are losing their base as well.

Is not your own post also spin?

Have the dems (in spinning) yet said anything about this election you found untrue or unfair? If so, specifics would mean more than just gloating. (Though I don't begrudge you the right to gloat. It's a fine LoT tradition.) I do agree that Coakley ended up being a weak candidate. On the other hand, I think that the center is all that Obama is actually holding onto. It's the progressive base that is feeling the most buyer's remorse. (And it goes without saying that he never had the conservative base. Maybe you mean he is losing the right-center? That could be. I'm not very in touch with that constituency.)

I don't know if Brown's victory really spells the end of the current health care bill or not. But let's say that the balance of the house and senate shift to the republicans later this year. If they truly have nothing other to offer than the status quo on health care, there is going to be hell to pay. (There is already increasing anger and frustration with MOR folks like me who work four or five part time jobs, have no benefits and cannot afford anything but the most useless of policies.) Can you guys fix it? Can anyone? I don't demand that anything be given to me for free, but you will never convince me that the current system is anything but unfair, broken and criminal.

There will be plenty to discuss, argue and bash our heads on desks about as this year goes on. Enjoy your tasty dish of win for the moment, sca.

[Gemini Cricket]

I can't help but sit back and just shrug. I feel underrepresented as a gay man and liberal by the Democratic Party. (Not that I would ever defect and become a Republican...) So when Obama gets slapped on the wrist by this loss, I can't help but go, 'If you had my back then I'd feel something for ya, Mr. President.'

[JWBear]

I would like to point out that lack of support for the current health care bill does not equal lack of support for any health care reform.

[scaeagles]

I agree with that, JW. I am not against any health care reform, but certainly am against what is presented at present.

Flippy, if you look at how dem candidates have been polling with independents, independents are moving toward the republican party. Obama and his agenda are alienating his base because it isn't leftist enough. He is alienating the center because he's playing the same political games he vowed he wouldn't play.

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I agree with that, JW. I am not against any health care reform, but certainly am against what is presented at present.

The funny thing is, so am I; but for very different reasons, I'm sure.

[scaeagles]

Most assuredly. Good lord knows I just want everyone to get sick and die.

[flippyshark]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

He is alienating the center because he's playing the same political games he vowed he wouldn't play.

Sadly, that seems true. I'm inclined to give Obama as much benefit of the doubt as I can, but he's going to have to do quite a lot in the next three years to impress me. As it stands, one-term presidency seems likely.

At the same time, when Brown said that his victory wasn't a referendum on Obama, I think that's true. November, though ...