The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

JW, maybe you are too close to it to be getting it as clearly as I do, and apparently as GD does (and hopefully others). This is not all about you, but Alex is - I believe - using a sample of your posting and a sample of another's (scaeagles, I think) to point out how such statements are used to combat the other side's arguments - but are simply undercutting their own - due to their hypocritical and rather lame attempts at deflection.

Yes, I'm obviously a complete dolt because no one gets my point.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by JWBear

Yes, I'm obviously a complete dolt because no one gets my point.

Err, you have 3 people trying to explain Alex's point to you, and all of your posts have indicated that you still don't get what Alex is saying.

Yes, we UNDERSTAND that what you meant was "the right wing violence is more worrisome than the left wing violence." Which is exactly what Alex said you meant, and exactly what Alex is saying is a weak position to be arguing.

ETA: and in case it wasn't clear, my previous post was heavy with sarcasm as I'm not exactly seeing the distinction between "downplaying" and "saying it's less of an issue".

[innerSpaceman]

And, JayDub, you also seem too close it when you react to a post which started with the very tactful "maybe you are too close to it" by offering hyperbole like "I'm obviously a complete dolt."

[BarTopDancer]

Violent threats from both sides are wrong.

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Yes, we UNDERSTAND that what you meant was "the right wing violence is more worrisome than the left wing violence."

No. What I am saying is that I find the current rise in right wing violence more troubling right now than what the left wing has done in the past. What is past is past. What is going on right now is an issue that needs to be addressed. How much clearer do I need to be?

ETA: Perhaps the problem is that there is an assumption that I am making a left vs right argument. I am not. It's simply that the violent talk and actions that concern me at the present time happen to be coming from the right. If the sides were reversed, I would be just as concerned.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by JWBear

No. What I am saying is that I find the current rise in right wing violence more troubling right now than what the left wing has done in the past. What is past is past. What is going on right now is an issue that needs to be addressed. How much clearer do I need to be?

"I never condoned violence conected to anti-war demonstrations, but it never frightened me."

How much clearer indeed.

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by JWBear

No. What I am saying is that I find the current rise in right wing violence more troubling right now than what the left wing has done in the past. What is past is past. What is going on right now is an issue that needs to be addressed. How much clearer do I need to be?

Try this:

What I am saying is that I find the current rise in right wing violence more troubling right now than what the left wing has done in the past.

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

"I never condoned violence conected to anti-war demonstrations, but it never frightened me."

How much clearer indeed.

Concern and fright are two different concepts. So, since I find I must clarify every single point now... The anti-war violence concerned me, but did not frighten me. The current events both concern and frighten me; not because of the ideology involved, but because of the rising frequency and disturbing support of it that I see in some quarters. I am concerned and frightened that it will get even uglier, and that someone is going to get killed.

And with that, I bow out of this discussion. I have said what I have to say. I've made my concerns known, and have been taken to task for them. I'm starting to feel a little like Cassandra. Hopefully, unlike her, my prophecy won't prove true.

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

Try this:

What I am saying is that I find the current rise in right wing violence more troubling right now than what the left wing has done in the past.

Yes, thank you. BDT gets it.

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Yes, let's not feign surprise when "anarchists" take to violence. Do "Teabaggers" want the same connections applied to them? (Sorry, TeaPartiers).

Hey - Anarchists aren't necessarily violent, it's just the violent one's get all the press - and being anarchist, there is no organized response to denounce.

On the other hand, I think people resort to violence when the feel they have been marginalized which is why you see it arise from the fringes.

The competitive model has done us some good, but it's ashame we really don't have many cooperative models for bringing people together for a common goal unless its a common enemy.