Howl's Moving Castle

[innerSpaceman]

Sorry, GD, but that's another reason I like the English better. With no offense to the Japanese (going on Alex's assertion that the subtitles are accurate), the "original" language has a sort of See Dick Run quality of unexpressiveness that I find, well, boring.

I'm really glad I had my subtitle "malfuction" - because I frankly find the English translation to be better and more entertaining.

And without any offense meant to whoever does casting for Studio Ghibli, I have my suspicions that the top-name American actors are actually giving better peformances than the original cast.

(Though Pete Doctor admitted in one of the bonus features that the Howl character was sexed up a bit because it was felt the effiminate/androgenous character of the Japanese version would not translate well to American audiences.)

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

The subtitles are translation of the Japanese. The English dub is the change in language necessary to match mouth movements and create subtle changes in story that make comprehension easier for non-Japanese people (a Japanese idiom, for example, will probably be literally translated in the subtitles while converted to an English equivelant for the dub).

Yeah, Japanese idioms don't translate well directly into English. Or the other way around for that matter.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

Wasn't it in the 'Spirited Away' English dub version where they replaced a line from the witch with "Paper cut." but what she actually said in Japanese was different?

I'm not sure about the translation differences in Spirited Away, but Anne Bancroft did confirm that she chose to play the bathouse "witch" completey differently, almost polar oppositely, from the Japanese actress's interpretation. This kinda bugged me, but I found both performances to be wonderful.

Heheh, I think I'll watch Spirited Away in English with the subtitles on to discover all the fun translation changes!

[Gemini Cricket]

I miss Anne Bancroft.

[Alex]

The subtitles still aren't 100% accurate translations but they are mostly very close and certainly much closer than the English dubs. When we saw Spirited Away in the theater it was with subtitles and there were a few parts of that where Lani leaned over and whispered that the subtitles were way off from the spoken word.

Mostly in areas that were so steeped in assumed understanding of Japanese folklore that it just would make no sense at all to someone who wasn't. There is a lot in Spirited Away that just goes right over an American's head.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Sorry, GD, but that's another reason I like the English better. With no offense to the Japanese (going on Alex's assertion that the subtitles are accurate), the "original" language has a sort of See Dick Run quality of unexpressiveness that I find, well, boring.

Which I can totally dig. For me, having spent years watching subbed anime, it's almost like learning a new language. You start to learn idiomatic Japanese in its near-literal English translated form and eventually learn a whole new form of expressiveness. Believe me, it took me a long time, but now that I'm fairly fluent in subtitle, it lends a depth and insight that the Americanization can't quite capture. There simply IS no accurate analog translation of the cultural significance of concepts like "Kawaiiii!" (to use the simplest of examples).

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

There is a lot in Spirited Away that just goes right over an American's head.

It might not if you're a Japanese American.

[Alex]

And it might not as well if you're an American who was raised by the ambassador to Japan who felt it was important to expose his children to local cultures and therefore had you go to Japanese public schools rather than the American School in Japan (real place and Lani's Japanese alma mater). Or if you are a masters student in cultural anthropology with a focus on Japanese folklore.

It was a (accurate) generalization and there are obvious exceptions. Shall we list them all?

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Watching Howl with his rightly youthful Japanese voice took my breath away. I fell head over heels for him. When we switched over to dubbed I thought Christian Bale's husky voice being used for the lithe and youthful Howl was ridiculous. Totally took me out of the movie.

Billy Crystal is Billy Crystal, not a pesky fire character. Again, there's no way I could have watched it that way. The Japanese voice was wonderfully, well, Japanese.

I'm still miffed that we had to watch Kiki's with dubbing. CERTAIN people overrode us on that one. Phil Hartman's worst hour, and I definitely count myself a fan of his.

If I want to try another culture's food, I don't smother it in Cheez Whiz. If I want to try another culture's art, I want it sans Americanization.

As for the movie itself - a beautiful thing to behold, but in the end the story was too disjointed for my taste. The author is a well-published children's fantasy novelist, but I haven't read anything by her. I think I may hunt down a copy.

[Alex]

I know the point you're trying to make GC, but since the obvious exceptions don't actually weaken the point being made in my generalization (as they do in your generalization) I don't really think it is the same thing.