We knew they'd start chipping people some day... - Page 6

Alex · 07-25-2007, 09:07 PM

I assume the purpose of the Army ranger chipping would be for purposes of body identification (internal dogtags) not tracking. For it to work with tracking the soldier would have to carry a larger unit on them that could communicate with the chip and then broadcast to a satallite. If you're going to do that, the chip is almost completely unnecessary as you can just track the sending unit.

They might call it something like GPS if they wanted a fancy military acronym. There is no way you'll get an RFID chip small enough for injection that can communicate over long distances. It would need a power source external to the body.

And retinal scans do involve the scanned thing broadcasting a signal, it is called light. I've played with retinal scanners that work over similar distances as RFID readers (though they are omnidirectional).

Personally I think you have more to fear from facial recognition and ubiquity of networked cameras than you do an RFID network dense enough to do the same thing. I'm not saying the frog won't die, just that it is already pretty much there and that there isn't much difference (except symbolic) between an RFID in your wallet and one in your arm.

We have handed over any claim to "secure privacy" not because of malignant overlords bent on misdeeds but because generally we all want the convenience that giving it up provides.

My exact location to within a couple hundred feed could be tracked at any point today by the dreaded omniscient Big Brother without any further advancement in technology. You're not wrong to predict it, but for most of us it is already here and it really isn't that big of a deal (to me, anyway). The alternative is to pay cash, carry at best a no-name phone, and get a job in a completely different field.

My day as tracked by Big Brother:

I woke up, I logged into gmail (creating an identity/IP match that can be tied to my apartment. Then I grabbed my cell phone no the way out the door and Lani drove me to the BART station creating a GPS trail that the cell company could divulge. Providing secondary confiramtion I used a BART ticket purchased with a credit card in my name to get into the Dublin/BART station and exit at the Macarthur Station. Then things would get fuzzy if it weren't for my phone but 22 minutes later I bought a fruit cup with credit card at Starbuck's and then used my RFID badge to enter my workplace (entry, though not exits, are tracked and stored) where I logged into my work computer and engaged in a level of activity indicating a steady presence throughout the day except for a 70 minutes pause where cell phone tracking and use of my gym membership badge indicate I visited the gym and returned immediately to work (tracked door entry). At 3 p.m. I apparently went to the bathroom because there was only a 5 minute pause in computer activity but I had another door entry (the restroom is in the common area). At 4 p.m. I entered the other secure part of the building and didnt return to my part until shortly after 5 p.m. I logged into a computer in the UE lab so I was probably there for a meeting.

Computer activity stopped at 5 p.m. and then at 5:20 I again used the same BART ticket to enter the BART station and exited at Dublin in a time that indicates no course deviation. From the Bayfair station I placed a call to Lani and her cell phone tracking indicates she picked me up at the BART station rather than me taking the bus from there like usual. GPS tracking of the Wheels bus system indicates this is probably because a 4 minute delay on BART would have caused me to miss the bus. At 6:30 I logged into gmail from a computer IP the same as in the morning. Intermittent computer activity suggest general puttering around and at about 8pm an episode of The Closer was ordered and watched from On Demand.

€uroMeinke · 07-25-2007, 09:35 PM

My issue with RFID is that they are so commonplace that I often trigger door alarms at various stores. So far I just keep walking and no one does anything.

Alex · 07-25-2007, 09:48 PM

Is it a specific one? I keep my work entry card in my wallet (reader range limited so I still have to take it out of my pocket and hold it to the sensor by the door; this leads to some interesting configurations as people with full hands try to maneuver their butt close enough to the sensor) so it is always with me and I don't think I ever have.

Ghoulish Delight · 07-26-2007, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

Is it a specific one? I keep my work entry card in my wallet (reader range limited so I still have to take it out of my pocket and hold it to the sensor by the door; this leads to some interesting configurations as people with full hands try to maneuver their butt close enough to the sensor) so it is always with me and I don't think I ever have.

When I come back from soccer, my wallet is in my shoe. I feel like Maxwell Smart every time i open a door with my shoe.

Cadaverous Pallor · 07-25-2007, 10:34 PM

The "tiny steps towards Big Brother/Armageddon/etc" is almost never a good argument, IMHO, because each one of us has some instance of "tiny steps" that they're ok with. Take the dual sides of gun control vs right to bear arms. One could argue that each stance is baby steps away from an awful end result - either a government that strips everyone of their protection, or a populace that settles scores with duels. Whatever you're ok with, I can come up with a horrible possibility of misuse.

You personally may not carry a cell phone, but do any of you view cell phones as a danger to your privacy and freedom? If you fear RFID but not your cell phone, you've got it backwards.

I personally would not agree to implant RFID tech into my body just for my job's sake. My joke about not letting work get under my skin was also a true statement. It has little to do with being tracked, though - it's idea of modifying my body for my job which is abhorrent to me. I'm sure this has to do with my personal aversion to tattooing and piercing (I love it on others but I'd never do it to myself). I could see myself, a while from now, considering chip implantation for identification purposes, but that's a ways off, and I'd find out exactly what I was getting into first.

People always complain about having to carry a library card...

CoasterMatt · 07-25-2007, 10:36 PM

gun control is being able to hit what you're aiming at...

BarTopDancer · 07-26-2007, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoasterMatt

gun control is being able to hit what you're aiming at...

I really miss my ex...

But my aim is improving.

07-25-2007, 09:07 PM	#1
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	I assume the purpose of the Army ranger chipping would be for purposes of body identification (internal dogtags) not tracking. For it to work with tracking the soldier would have to carry a larger unit on them that could communicate with the chip and then broadcast to a satallite. If you're going to do that, the chip is almost completely unnecessary as you can just track the sending unit. They might call it something like GPS if they wanted a fancy military acronym. There is no way you'll get an RFID chip small enough for injection that can communicate over long distances. It would need a power source external to the body. And retinal scans do involve the scanned thing broadcasting a signal, it is called light. I've played with retinal scanners that work over similar distances as RFID readers (though they are omnidirectional). Personally I think you have more to fear from facial recognition and ubiquity of networked cameras than you do an RFID network dense enough to do the same thing. I'm not saying the frog won't die, just that it is already pretty much there and that there isn't much difference (except symbolic) between an RFID in your wallet and one in your arm. We have handed over any claim to "secure privacy" not because of malignant overlords bent on misdeeds but because generally we all want the convenience that giving it up provides. My exact location to within a couple hundred feed could be tracked at any point today by the dreaded omniscient Big Brother without any further advancement in technology. You're not wrong to predict it, but for most of us it is already here and it really isn't that big of a deal (to me, anyway). The alternative is to pay cash, carry at best a no-name phone, and get a job in a completely different field. My day as tracked by Big Brother: I woke up, I logged into gmail (creating an identity/IP match that can be tied to my apartment. Then I grabbed my cell phone no the way out the door and Lani drove me to the BART station creating a GPS trail that the cell company could divulge. Providing secondary confiramtion I used a BART ticket purchased with a credit card in my name to get into the Dublin/BART station and exit at the Macarthur Station. Then things would get fuzzy if it weren't for my phone but 22 minutes later I bought a fruit cup with credit card at Starbuck's and then used my RFID badge to enter my workplace (entry, though not exits, are tracked and stored) where I logged into my work computer and engaged in a level of activity indicating a steady presence throughout the day except for a 70 minutes pause where cell phone tracking and use of my gym membership badge indicate I visited the gym and returned immediately to work (tracked door entry). At 3 p.m. I apparently went to the bathroom because there was only a 5 minute pause in computer activity but I had another door entry (the restroom is in the common area). At 4 p.m. I entered the other secure part of the building and didnt return to my part until shortly after 5 p.m. I logged into a computer in the UE lab so I was probably there for a meeting. Computer activity stopped at 5 p.m. and then at 5:20 I again used the same BART ticket to enter the BART station and exited at Dublin in a time that indicates no course deviation. From the Bayfair station I placed a call to Lani and her cell phone tracking indicates she picked me up at the BART station rather than me taking the bus from there like usual. GPS tracking of the Wheels bus system indicates this is probably because a 4 minute delay on BART would have caused me to miss the bus. At 6:30 I logged into gmail from a computer IP the same as in the morning. Intermittent computer activity suggest general puttering around and at about 8pm an episode of The Closer was ordered and watched from On Demand.
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07-25-2007, 09:35 PM	#2
€uroMeinke L'Hédoniste Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: A.S.C.O.T. Posts: 8,671	My issue with RFID is that they are so commonplace that I often trigger door alarms at various stores. So far I just keep walking and no one does anything. __________________ I would believe only in a God that knows how to Dance. Friedrich Nietzsche
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07-25-2007, 09:48 PM	#3
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	Is it a specific one? I keep my work entry card in my wallet (reader range limited so I still have to take it out of my pocket and hold it to the sensor by the door; this leads to some interesting configurations as people with full hands try to maneuver their butt close enough to the sensor) so it is always with me and I don't think I ever have.
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07-25-2007, 10:34 PM	#5
Cadaverous Pallor ohhhh baby Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Parental Bliss Posts: 12,364	The "tiny steps towards Big Brother/Armageddon/etc" is almost never a good argument, IMHO, because each one of us has some instance of "tiny steps" that they're ok with. Take the dual sides of gun control vs right to bear arms. One could argue that each stance is baby steps away from an awful end result - either a government that strips everyone of their protection, or a populace that settles scores with duels. Whatever you're ok with, I can come up with a horrible possibility of misuse. You personally may not carry a cell phone, but do any of you view cell phones as a danger to your privacy and freedom? If you fear RFID but not your cell phone, you've got it backwards. I personally would not agree to implant RFID tech into my body just for my job's sake. My joke about not letting work get under my skin was also a true statement. It has little to do with being tracked, though - it's idea of modifying my body for my job which is abhorrent to me. I'm sure this has to do with my personal aversion to tattooing and piercing (I love it on others but I'd never do it to myself). I could see myself, a while from now, considering chip implantation for identification purposes, but that's a ways off, and I'd find out exactly what I was getting into first. People always complain about having to carry a library card... __________________ The second star to the right shines in the night for you
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07-25-2007, 10:36 PM	#6
CoasterMatt BRAAAAAAAINS! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: One Step Beyond... Posts: 8,802	gun control is being able to hit what you're aiming at... __________________ Do you like my photography? Visit photosbymatt.tumblr.com to purchase prints!
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