Do You Believe? - Page 6

Cadaverous Pallor · 08-06-2008, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Right now, we know of one mechanism for our thoughts to affect their world. That's through the intermediary of our nervous, skeletal, and muscular systems. Of course, our thoughts have an unfair advantage in that realm in that they are PART of that system...

I love when you talk like this....just wait until we get home tonight....

Kevy Baby · 08-06-2008, 07:13 AM

Do you believe in magic in a young girl's heart
How the music can free her, whenever it starts
And it's magic, if the music is groovy
It makes you feel happy like an old-time movie
I'll tell you about the magic, and it'll free your soul
But it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock and roll

innerSpaceman · 08-06-2008, 07:54 AM

You mean the realm of "belief?"

Ghoulish Delight · 08-06-2008, 08:05 AM

Sure. I just can't wrap my head around believing something for which there's no evidence. Why chose one form of prayer over any other, then, if there's no explanation for why, or even if, your chosen form would work?

I don't begrudge anyone their belief, but people seem to like to try to convince me that "Brain activity has physical effects, therefore prayer works" is a logical progression. All I'm saying is that it's not. If you believe it, fine, but don't try to pass it off as logical and scientific.

Ghoulish Delight · 08-06-2008, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

I don't begrudge anyone their belief, but people seem to like to try to convince me that "Brain activity has physical effects, therefore prayer works" is a logical progression. All I'm saying is that it's not. If you believe it, fine, but don't try to pass it off as logical and scientific.

Just want to add that this wasn't directed at anyone here. I know everyone here, like me, is just stating, not debating, their beliefs. I had in mind things like What the Bleep do we Know when I wrote that.

Alex · 08-06-2008, 08:36 AM

I'm a bit confused by this:

Quote:

As an example, think of an asteroid that's millions of lightyears away, discovered to be heading generally towards earth. That asteroid is well out of a range where its physical properties have a direct effect on human behavior, yet it would surely alter human behavior. But that's very different from "the asteroid chose to alter human behavior."

There is a physical interaction with the asteroid (photons from source A bounce off Asteroid B and are intercepted by Humanity C) and physical properties of the asteroid (it reflects photons at a sufficient level for detection) that caused the change here on Earth. Thus it is astronomy. If it affected human behavior without that physical interaction then it would be astrology.

(Though I'd posit that an asteroid light years from earth would cause no change in human behavior beyond noting it was there, after all it would be millennia before it got here.)

But yeah, otherwise I agree with you. One of the great mysteries of faith (to me) is why it is at all satisfying to believe in something without evidence of any type (obviously it is to billions of people, I just didn't get that gene).

Ghoulish Delight · 08-06-2008, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

I'm a bit confused by this:

There is a physical interaction with the asteroid (photons from source A bounce off Asteroid B and are intercepted by Humanity C) and physical properties of the asteroid (it reflects photons at a sufficient level for detection) that caused the change here on Earth. Thus it is astronomy. If it affected human behavior without that physical interaction then it would be astrology.

(Though I'd posit that an asteroid light years from earth would cause no change in human behavior beyond noting it was there, after all it would be millennia before it got here.)

But yeah, otherwise I agree with you. One of the great mysteries of faith (to me) is why it is at all satisfying to believe in something without evidence of any type (obviously it is to billions of people, I just didn't get that gene).

Yeah, I've been going over that paragraph in my head since I wrote it. 1) yeah, yeah, not light years. I meant far away, but close enough that we're keeping our astronomical eye on it. 2) I didn't mean no physical interaction. I meant it as an example of physical interaction that is not on a "push lever A for result B". Tiny amounts of photons with very little mass or momentum causing huge-scale changes in human behavior (like the writing of a really bad Bruce Willis/Ben Afleck vehicle). Just establishing that yes, I agree there might be mechanisms beyond moving muscles and bones that can alter the course of the world.

Alex · 08-06-2008, 08:48 AM

I do find it interesting that the OP seemed to be asking about conspiratorial beliefs and it quickly morphed into metaphysical belief.

Not Afraid · 08-06-2008, 10:00 AM

The Secret!

innerSpaceman · 08-06-2008, 10:06 AM

GD, I'm having a hard time wrappping my head around your definition of belief such that it only applies to things for which there is evidence.

Perhaps we're not using the same meaning of the word ... but it seems to me that belief in that for which there is NO evidence is the essence of belief.

It's very easy for me to "believe" in gravity. But what kind of belief is that? A great big D'UH. I believe in God ... I have ZERO evidence for that belief.

08-06-2008, 07:13 AM	#2
Kevy Baby Chowder Head Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Yes Posts: 18,500	Do you believe in magic in a young girl's heart How the music can free her, whenever it starts And it's magic, if the music is groovy It makes you feel happy like an old-time movie I'll tell you about the magic, and it'll free your soul But it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock and roll __________________ The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot verify their validity. - Abraham Lincoln
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08-06-2008, 07:54 AM	#3
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	You mean the realm of "belief?"
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08-06-2008, 08:05 AM	#4
Ghoulish Delight I Floop the Pig Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alternative Swankstyle Posts: 19,348	Sure. I just can't wrap my head around believing something for which there's no evidence. Why chose one form of prayer over any other, then, if there's no explanation for why, or even if, your chosen form would work? I don't begrudge anyone their belief, but people seem to like to try to convince me that "Brain activity has physical effects, therefore prayer works" is a logical progression. All I'm saying is that it's not. If you believe it, fine, but don't try to pass it off as logical and scientific. __________________ 'He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.' -TJ
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08-06-2008, 08:48 AM	#8
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	I do find it interesting that the OP seemed to be asking about conspiratorial beliefs and it quickly morphed into metaphysical belief.
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08-06-2008, 10:00 AM	#9
Not Afraid HI! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 17,108	The Secret!
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08-06-2008, 10:06 AM	#10
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	GD, I'm having a hard time wrappping my head around your definition of belief such that it only applies to things for which there is evidence. Perhaps we're not using the same meaning of the word ... but it seems to me that belief in that for which there is NO evidence is the essence of belief. It's very easy for me to "believe" in gravity. But what kind of belief is that? A great big D'UH. I believe in God ... I have ZERO evidence for that belief.
	Submit to Quotes