Schwarzeneggar Proposes to End HIV/AIDS Services

[scaeagles]

Of course it doesn't translate. All it was is an example of a way that we could absolutely save 37500 lives annually and it wouldn't even cost 1 cent. Except we'd probably have to have some fund or something to purchase the governors for all the cars.

[Prudence]

The comparison I would make is a contrast to other "safety net" programs.

Take food stamps. Without food stamps, people go hungry. Will some die? Quite possibly. Somehow most will likely scrape by. Not well, but they'll live. Soup kitchens, shelters, digging through garbage -- somehow they'll manage to live to see the next day.

Without the right medications, those with HIV/AIDS *will* die. And they can't go to a soup kitchen or shelter or dig through the garbage to find some sort of replacement. Furthermore, the expense is such that the community cannot absorb it through the same sort of limited altruism that stocks food pantries.

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Prudence

The comparison I would make is a contrast to other "safety net" programs.

Take food stamps. Without food stamps, people go hungry. Will some die? Quite possibly. Somehow most will likely scrape by. Not well, but they'll live. Soup kitchens, shelters, digging through garbage -- somehow they'll manage to live to see the next day.

Without the right medications, those with HIV/AIDS *will* die. And they can't go to a soup kitchen or shelter or dig through the garbage to find some sort of replacement. Furthermore, the expense is such that the community cannot absorb it through the same sort of limited altruism that stocks food pantries.

Exactly. There are no alternatives in the private sector. If ADAP is cut, most will die.

[innerSpaceman]

scaeagles' hypothetical was ludicrous in many other ways as well, but I daresay his purpose was not to suggest a realistic analogy ... but rather to suggest his position on AIDS funding from the California budget does not correlate directly with him being gruesomely cavalier about human death and suffering.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

There are plenty of other people that have been diagnosed with deadly diseases. If we had a state run health care system, then we'd need to cover them. We do not. How do you pick and choose which diseases we should provide coverage for? If the answer is that we need to medicate all people who have been diagnosed with deadly diseases, then we need to have mandated health care, which I support, but we do not have it at the moment.

Again, those of you that are so angry they are cutting this particular program - what do you cut? If you do not know the ins and outs of exactly what is being cut and what isn't (and I sure don't) then you can't claim that this is the wrong program to cut.

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

There are plenty of other people that have been diagnosed with deadly diseases. If we had a state run health care system, then we'd need to cover them. We do not. How do you pick and choose which diseases we should provide coverage for? If the answer is that we need to medicate all people who have been diagnosed with deadly diseases, then we need to have mandated health care, which I support, but we do not have it at the moment.

Again, those of you that are so angry they are cutting this particular program - what do you cut? If you do not know the ins and outs of exactly what is being cut and what isn't (and I sure don't) then you can't claim that this is the wrong program to cut.

Are those diseases fully manageable only with medications that can cost thousands of dollars per month? And without those meds, you will quickly fall ill and die? If so, then they should be as fully funded as AIDS/HIV.

What do you cut? Things that people won't die without.

I am truly saddened and appalled at the number of people here who would so cavalierly let people die! Sickening!

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by JWBear

I am truly saddened and appalled at the number of people here who would so cavalierly let people die! Sickening!

well, how much of your own cash have you committed to the cause? The government may be one avenue of help, but it's not the only one. I don't think you can condemn a group of people not know what they themselves have done to help others in need outside of "giving at the office" via the government.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by JWBear

Are those diseases fully manageable only with medications that can cost thousands of dollars per month? And without those meds, you will quickly fall ill and die? If so, then they should be as fully funded as AIDS/HIV.

They should be, but they aren't. I support full health care for all US citizens. We don't have that, which means we don't have the funding set up for it.

Originally Posted by JWBear

I am truly saddened and appalled at the number of people here who would so cavalierly let people die! Sickening!

Without health care for all, we're pretty much stuck picking and choosing. Thank you for accusing me of cavalierly letting people die, especially since I said nothing of the sort. An apology would be appreciated.

There are plenty of treatable diseases that aren't covered by the government right now.

Oh, and did you have that list of gov't programs you're going to cut ready?

[Strangler Lewis]

How much is a human life worth? Not every life can be saved, and it's hard not to view the financial decision as intertwined with a policy decision about who is worth saving and whether a "no" vote is a dispassionate one or smacks in some way of persecution. I suspect JW Bear would have a different view about cutting some posited government funded program to regrow spinal cords for ATV accident victims.

[€uroMeinke]

And in the end the government still can't ensure my immortality - bastards