The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux) - Page 679

alphabassettgrrl · 07-21-2012, 10:58 AM

At least if everybody's armed, you have a chance if you can get a breath and collect yourself. Plus, people who carry tend to be more comfortable around guns (though not usually about being shot *at*) and may be able to pull themselves together once they realize what's going on.

Motorboat Cruiser · 07-21-2012, 11:20 AM

Or...

An armed moviegoer sees a dark figure, dressed in black and holding a gun slowly make their way through the smoke-filled haze half-blinded. They take that headshot only to find out they killed a police officer. Or, the police officer (who does have the proper training) sees their raised weapon and takes his own head shot.

Nah, still not comfortable with having a bunch of armed vigilantes running around, even in light of this tragedy. Some have proper training, many do not.

alphabassettgrrl · 07-21-2012, 04:06 PM

Lived in an area where anybody with a pickup truck had guns in the back window. Very very little actual gun violence. No vigilante mindset, either. Much more chill than here in LA.

Alex · 07-21-2012, 04:30 PM

To me there's a pretty significant difference between rifles in the truck with an actual purpose and being so afraid of society that you feel the need to be armed while sitting in your seat at the movies, while sitting in class at school, while getting your hair cut at the salon, while eating at the local chain buffeteria. That's a mindset I can't quite get to, feeling so at risk that one feels the need to be able to kill other people at a distance at all times.

If everybody in that theater had had a rifle in the back window of their cars, I suspect just as many people would be dead.

Now, I don't really have that much of an issue with guns as a recreational toy. But while if there had been 200 more people with guns in that theater it might be true that fewer people would have died (though I don't know how true with the combination of the circumstances and his speed in shooting about 70 people in a minute or two), it is also true that if there had been one less person in that theater with guns then it is definite that a lot fewer people would have died.

alphabassettgrrl · 07-22-2012, 07:13 PM

Real -world level of carrying a gun? I didn't see fear of being attacked, mostly what it would be is being on your way to target shooting or something, would be why you'd have it with you. You're right that even in a carrying environment, people probably wouldn't have it with them inside the theater.

3894 · 07-28-2012, 07:01 AM

Do you have concealed carry in CA?

Wisconsin does.

This sign is in the front row of a family pizza joint in a small town. I took the photo last weekend.

It is difficult for me to understand how someone could feel the need to pack heat to grab a slice of cheese pizza and a Pepsi. But then, I didn't understand the gun and knife very visible on the guy ahead of me at the gas station, either.

For killing Bambi, sure. For self-protection in a scary situation, maaaybe. In a safe small town? I do not understand.

alphabassettgrrl · 07-28-2012, 02:00 PM

No open-carry laws here that I know about. Was when we lived in Montana, though almost nobody did. My mom says signs like this are showing up in Minnesota now that they allow open carrying.

innerSpaceman · 07-30-2012, 10:14 AM

I'm not a supporter of Concealed Carry Laws, but I don't understand your point, 3894. Certainly if a gun is not needed to grab a slice, it's also not needed to catch a movie.

Except of course, when it is.

Supporters of concealed carry point out that an armed citizenry is a safe citizenry, and there's a certain insane logic in that (would a crazed gunman shoot up a movie theater if the law of averages says 10% of the audience would be armed?)

Of course, there's the recent Harvard study that shows a distinct correlation between states with lax gun laws and states with higher rates of suicide and homicide.

There are some decent arguments on both sides of the issue, but it's going to be pretty hard from now on to say you don't need to be armed to go about your daily consumer business.

katiesue · 07-30-2012, 10:30 AM

Do you really want to go into a say a bar, where half the patrons are armed? I don't. And I don't think it would slow down anyone who plans the kind of attack in Aurora. They usually want to be killed anyway they just want to go down in flames.

My former sister in law was always armed (probably still is). I'm not sure why you needed a gun for brunch at the Del but whatever.

I don't feel that having everyone around me armed makes me at all any safer. All my family but my parents are all hunter/gatherer types so everyone's got a gun cabinet in their house etc and honest I have no problem with that at all. I just don't see how having a gun on you all the time makes you safer. Or anyone else around you for that matter.

Moonliner · 07-30-2012, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

He was also wearing a ballistic helmet so even a head shot wasn't a guarantee. In the dark, tear gas, surrounded by panic.

The "if everybody was armed" argument always seems to assume an amazing amount of tactical training and preturnatural calm.

I believe the reasoning is that if you knew the audience was full of gun weilding patrons even a psychopath would think twice before starting that sh

!

t.

07-21-2012, 10:58 AM	#6781
alphabassettgrrl Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,978	At least if everybody's armed, you have a chance if you can get a breath and collect yourself. Plus, people who carry tend to be more comfortable around guns (though not usually about being shot at) and may be able to pull themselves together once they realize what's going on. __________________ Why cycling? Anything [sport] that had to do with a ball, I wasn't very good at. -Lance Armstrong
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07-21-2012, 11:20 AM	#6782
Motorboat Cruiser Cruiser of Motorboats Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: So Cal Posts: 3,665	Or... An armed moviegoer sees a dark figure, dressed in black and holding a gun slowly make their way through the smoke-filled haze half-blinded. They take that headshot only to find out they killed a police officer. Or, the police officer (who does have the proper training) sees their raised weapon and takes his own head shot. Nah, still not comfortable with having a bunch of armed vigilantes running around, even in light of this tragedy. Some have proper training, many do not.
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07-21-2012, 04:06 PM	#6783
alphabassettgrrl Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,978	Lived in an area where anybody with a pickup truck had guns in the back window. Very very little actual gun violence. No vigilante mindset, either. Much more chill than here in LA. __________________ Why cycling? Anything [sport] that had to do with a ball, I wasn't very good at. -Lance Armstrong
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07-21-2012, 04:30 PM	#6784
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	To me there's a pretty significant difference between rifles in the truck with an actual purpose and being so afraid of society that you feel the need to be armed while sitting in your seat at the movies, while sitting in class at school, while getting your hair cut at the salon, while eating at the local chain buffeteria. That's a mindset I can't quite get to, feeling so at risk that one feels the need to be able to kill other people at a distance at all times. If everybody in that theater had had a rifle in the back window of their cars, I suspect just as many people would be dead. Now, I don't really have that much of an issue with guns as a recreational toy. But while if there had been 200 more people with guns in that theater it might be true that fewer people would have died (though I don't know how true with the combination of the circumstances and his speed in shooting about 70 people in a minute or two), it is also true that if there had been one less person in that theater with guns then it is definite that a lot fewer people would have died.
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07-22-2012, 07:13 PM	#6785
alphabassettgrrl Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,978	Real -world level of carrying a gun? I didn't see fear of being attacked, mostly what it would be is being on your way to target shooting or something, would be why you'd have it with you. You're right that even in a carrying environment, people probably wouldn't have it with them inside the theater. __________________ Why cycling? Anything [sport] that had to do with a ball, I wasn't very good at. -Lance Armstrong
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07-28-2012, 07:01 AM	#6786
3894 Next Stop: Funkytown! Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cheeselandia Posts: 1,907	Do you have concealed carry in CA? Wisconsin does. This sign is in the front row of a family pizza joint in a small town. I took the photo last weekend. It is difficult for me to understand how someone could feel the need to pack heat to grab a slice of cheese pizza and a Pepsi. But then, I didn't understand the gun and knife very visible on the guy ahead of me at the gas station, either. For killing Bambi, sure. For self-protection in a scary situation, maaaybe. In a safe small town? I do not understand. __________________ "I didn't want to have to do this, but you leave me no choice. Here comes the smolder." - Flynn Rider, "Tangled"
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07-28-2012, 02:00 PM	#6787
alphabassettgrrl Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,978	No open-carry laws here that I know about. Was when we lived in Montana, though almost nobody did. My mom says signs like this are showing up in Minnesota now that they allow open carrying. __________________ Why cycling? Anything [sport] that had to do with a ball, I wasn't very good at. -Lance Armstrong
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07-30-2012, 10:14 AM	#6788
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	I'm not a supporter of Concealed Carry Laws, but I don't understand your point, 3894. Certainly if a gun is not needed to grab a slice, it's also not needed to catch a movie. Except of course, when it is. Supporters of concealed carry point out that an armed citizenry is a safe citizenry, and there's a certain insane logic in that (would a crazed gunman shoot up a movie theater if the law of averages says 10% of the audience would be armed?) Of course, there's the recent Harvard study that shows a distinct correlation between states with lax gun laws and states with higher rates of suicide and homicide. There are some decent arguments on both sides of the issue, but it's going to be pretty hard from now on to say you don't need to be armed to go about your daily consumer business.
	Submit to Quotes

07-30-2012, 10:30 AM	#6789
katiesue Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 4,678	Do you really want to go into a say a bar, where half the patrons are armed? I don't. And I don't think it would slow down anyone who plans the kind of attack in Aurora. They usually want to be killed anyway they just want to go down in flames. My former sister in law was always armed (probably still is). I'm not sure why you needed a gun for brunch at the Del but whatever. I don't feel that having everyone around me armed makes me at all any safer. All my family but my parents are all hunter/gatherer types so everyone's got a gun cabinet in their house etc and honest I have no problem with that at all. I just don't see how having a gun on you all the time makes you safer. Or anyone else around you for that matter. __________________ My life is so exciting I can hardly stand it.
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