Christian groups slam Golden Compass

[LSPoorEeyorick]

I think they're concerned about the "gateway drug" phenomenon, as Alex as mentioned above (I think) and elsewhere. Some kid who loves the movie is going to ask for the books and then question religion - or that's the fear.

And I do understand their concerns. It's true, it really DOES attempt to "kill God" in the series, and it can be very affronting to people who believe firmly in God (even if they're not overly dogmatic.) That doesn't mean one shouldn't see it (and for the record, it doesn't mean I agree with them.) But I can see why it would make them unhappy or uncomfortable taking their kids to a movie that would lead them to a series that would then insult their beliefs. It IS a parent's prerogative to teach them whatever dogma they choose and protect them as they see fit.

That said, I'm looking forward to seeing the movie this weekend (if there's time. And if I can first see Juno.)

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

That said, I'm looking forward to seeing the movie this weekend (if there's time. And if I can first see Juno.)

Juno's out! Oooooooh

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

How does Narnia do that- you yourself have said you did not pick up on the religious undertones when you read the book. The movie is even less obvious-

No, and I didn't pick up that the Pullman books were anti-Catholic. So, that means the Catholic argument is moot.

[Tref]

Originally Posted by Chernabog

Maybe I should hand you some extra lynchin' rope for that march, because your strawman is losing its stuffing.

We are not talking about child pornography, we are talking about themes that may or may not exist in a movie -- but you wouldn't know that because you haven't seen it (and, FYI reviews of the film indicate that those themes aren't there). I mean, at the very LEAST read some detailed reviews and analysis before deciding whether to protest. I tried to point out that although you may have objections to the source material, that doesn't mean it was translated to screen in that same way.

But yes, we can all agree that child pornography is bad stuff. I guess you've won there.

Edit: OK so perhaps "idiots" was too strong a word. I'll just say "fundamentally misguided" and leave it at that.

Haha! Bully for you! I have been taken down a peg, what?

Hmm, but methinks, somebody has been been into the sugarbowl again! So, pull up your little rocking chair and let's have a talk.

Yes, yes, my little one, child pornography is bad. Very bad. Made by the bad-man.

But you see, lil' punkin', what I was really saying was ... well ... I just don't want you to worry about the protests, OK? There really aren't any. Nobody is going to get lynched and the strawmen are just figures of speech.

You see, some Catholics, not all, but some, are worried that this film could influence children to read the books by which the movie was based and they contain a lot of anti-Catholic rhetoric. Heavy stuff that the movie intentionally watered down. These concerned parents want their children to know the teachings of Jesus and the Church He founded before they set them loose on the world to discover the other side on their own. And you know what? That's their right because they are the parents. The Catholic Church, or, people purportedly speaking for them have come out and warned these parents against taking their children to the movie. That's all.

And you know what, despite what you might think, these parents do not have to view the film to come to this conclusion. Nope. They are free to do what they want.

And you are too!

That's right -- you!

Oh yeh, one more thing: now, I do not where you get off responding to me as you did. I only questioned if the word, "idiot" was not a little strong. I can see you are clearly passionate about something, Chern' --- I am just not sure what.

[Kevy Baby]

Simplified:

• Child Pornography: Illegal. Doesn't need to be seen to know what is there.
• Golden Compass: May or may not contain anti-Christian message. Needs to be seen to know if said message is within movie. According to reports; is not.
• Having anti-Christian message: Not illegal

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Some quick responses to you, KB...

Anti-Christian message is not in movie, but the concern, as I understsand it, is not the movie but the "gateway drug" phenomenon, as the anti-Christian message is DEFINITELY within the books.

No, the anti-Christian message is not illegal, but it doesn't mean a parent has to choose to take their child to it, either.

We're heading to see it (and Atonement, and Juno) today so I'll pop in later with a review.

[Chernabog]

Originally Posted by Tref

But you see, lil' punkin', what I was really saying was ... well ... I just don't want you to worry about the protests, OK? There really aren't any. Nobody is going to get lynched and the strawmen are just figures of speech.

Sorry, DEAR, but you were the one with the "onward march" statement. I just ran with the imagery. My reference to a "straw man" referred to your strawman argument where you changed the argument to something that everyone could agree upon (child porn is bad!) in an attempt to discredit the unrelated argument.

The Catholic Church, or, people purportedly speaking for them have come out and warned these parents against taking their children to the movie. That's all.

Sure. And I still think their reasoning is baseless, for reasons I've already said in this thread.

And you know what, despite what you might think, these parents do not have to view the film to come to this conclusion. Nope. They are free to do what they want.

And you are too!

That's right -- you!

You're really working on this type of argument technique aren't you? Yes, of course the parents are free to do what they want. Everyone can agree on that. So I guess you've "won" again! (And I never argued your first sentence, so you're putting words into my mouth also *sigh*)

Oh yeh, one more thing: now, I do not where you get off responding to me as you did. I only questioned if the word, "idiot" was not a little strong. I can see you are clearly passionate about something, Chern' --- I am just not sure what.

You responded in a manner that read like you not only took great offense to what I said, but that you indeed were one of the "idiots".... err "fundamentally misguided" persons that were protesting the film. So really, pardon me for responding in kind.

[Disneyphile]

As with anything, I think parents should review whatever their child watches prior to them watching it anyway. My parents did that - if they couldn't watch it, they read reviews or at least researched what the movie/television show entailed.

To be fair, I wouldn't want my kids (if we had any) watching anything that made them feel bad about our household beliefs. For instance, "Veggie Tales", which preaches biblical teachings in the guise of cute cartoons. The last thing I'd want is my kids to see something and say, "But if I don't worship Jesus, I'm bad!" So, I can understand and respect the Catholic's stance on this particular film.

[Snowflake]

Gotta say it Cherny, those non-Bjork b00bies are sort of freakin me out. Will you be going back to a regularly scheduled avatar sometime? Assuming, of course, that those are non-Bjork

[Chernabog]

Originally Posted by Disneyphile

As with anything, I think parents should review whatever their child watches prior to them watching it anyway. My parents did that - if they couldn't watch it, they read reviews or at least researched what the movie/television show entailed.

And that's the thing -- the Catholic Church thinks the movie is bad because the books have a veiled message which doesn't appear in the movie. For them to say "we don't think your kids should read the books" -- that I can kind of understand on some level (though I still disagree with it -- I think that kids and parents should be able to talk about opposing viewpoints, if only to try and discredit them. I'm not a big fan of the "no dialog -- THIS is how things are" mentality).

Originally Posted by Disneyphile

To be fair, I wouldn't want my kids (if we had any) watching anything that made them feel bad about our household beliefs. For instance, "Veggie Tales", which preaches biblical teachings in the guise of cute cartoons. The last thing I'd want is my kids to see something and say, "But if I don't worship Jesus, I'm bad!" So, I can understand and respect the Catholic's stance on this particular film.

My understanding of "Veggie Tales" is that it is more than just a guise, but I've never seen it so I can't really comment. But don't you think that if your kids asked you that question, it'd be a good opportunity to sit down and explain, "well here's what some people think, and here's what other people think"? Parental censorship is all well and fine, I don't disagree with that.

So, um... don't buy your kids the book "The Golden Compass" if you're afraid it will ruin their little minds. Problem solved. And at least you're basing it on reviews and analysis from people who have actually read the thing.

Originally Posted by Snowflake

Gotta say it Cherny, those non-Bjork b00bies are sort of freakin me out. Will you be going back to a regularly scheduled avatar sometime?

Your wish is my command. I hope "Clash of the Titans" Bjork doesn't turn you into stone Hahah don't ask me what the hell she's doing.