Sooooo.....

[Alex]

Plus, when it comes to myth there is a problem with the truth/not truth issues. Say n is the number of religions labeled as myth. Pretty much everybody is in one of these two categories:

A) They believe n consists of things that aren't based on fact, regardless of whether they are useful or not.

or

B) They believe n-1 is the number of things in n that aren't based on fact and that 1 is the number of things in n that are based on fact. Being put in such stark mathematical terms makes some uncomfortable.

Which is another way of saying that if there have been 5000 religions in human history then a Christian is only 0.02% less of an atheist than I am in terms of the god systems we don't believe in.

[MouseWife]

Thanks all of your for your comments on 'myths'. Yep, what we compared it to was Greek Mythology.

I do believe what he is missing is 'faith'. But, to him, he says that 'faith' is stupidity. He does not believe in anything he can't see or touch. No swaying him. It does kind of hurt me as I always cherished my time in church as a child and, like I said, I do believe I had an experience in church.

So, I am torn. I do not like to insult the people I care about who do have faith. I also do not like being made to feel like a heathen because I don't agree. Or can't be turned.

But, what do you guys think about 'prayer'? I believe in the power of positive thought. What do you think/feel when someone asks you to pray for someone/something?

I like that percentage, Alex. So true. How do they explain the other religions out there? I guess this is why wars are fought at times?

Well, you guys all make sense. I hope my post makes some, too.

[BarTopDancer]

I think how you think effects your actions. If you think you are going to fail you probably will. If you think you will succeed you probably will. Having confidence in someone to succeed is not the same as giving them "positive vibes" which I think are bogus.

[Morrigoon]

Mousewife: Ask him if he believes in the wind.

He can not see it, nor touch it. But he knows it is there because he can witness the effect it has on everything around him.

[Ghoulish Delight]

If he can witness the effect it has, he's not "believing" anything, he's observing and drawing conclusions based on those observations. Nor would I even say one can't "touch" the wind. I touch it all the time, I can feel it quite readily. It's not just an observable phenomenon, it's an easily observable phenomenon.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by MouseWife

He does not believe in anything he can't see or touch. No swaying him.

If he presented himself I'd guess this is very much an oversimplification. I"m sure he believes in all kinds of things he can't see and touch. I certainly do.

What I don't believe in are things for which there is a) no evidence, and b) no need as a theoretical answer, used as a placeholder pending more a).

But, what do you guys think about 'prayer'? I believe in the power of positive thought. What do you think/feel when someone asks you to pray for someone/something?

I think prayer can help the person making the prayer as a form of focusing oneself. I don't think the prayer itself directly does anything. I also don't think that prayer on behalf of someone else does anything.

So when asked to pray or send positive thoughts/vibes for another i don't do anything. I may give them what little benefit such things can give by telling them that I've done such (since that at least can make them feel better) but I don't actually do anything.

I certainly don't offer Christian prayers since the idea of an omniscient/omnipotent entity that can be swayed by personal entreaty is appalling. At least the Greek gods were flawed avatars for human behavior and so cajoling made sense.

[Ghoulish Delight]

MouseWife, I would definitely say from what you've posted so far, I admire how you're handling it. The important thing isn't what YOU feel about it, it's what HE feels about it. You seem to be letting him ask the questions and search for the answers himself. That's the absolute best thing you can do. All you have to do is let him know that he's free to think about it any way he wants to, change his mind about it as much as he wants to, and come to any conclusion he wants, as long as he continues to treat people who've come to different conclusions with respect.

As you might imagine CP and I have spent a lot of time on similar subjects. We've been finding Parenting Beyond Belief and Raising Freethinkers very well thought out books.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Speaking of those books...

Originally Posted by MouseWife

I do believe what he is missing is 'faith'. But, to him, he says that 'faith' is stupidity. He does not believe in anything he can't see or touch.

Raising Freethinkers has what I found to be a very good response to that. Make him examine irrationality in his own thinking. Is he afraid of the dark? Does he get annoyed if his food isn't prepared in a particular way? Can he see or touch or in any way explain WHY he holds those ideas? And if not, does that make him stupid? If he can relate his own capacity to believe irrational things, he will be less likely to judge others for doing the same.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by Alex

...the idea of an omniscient/omnipotent entity that can be swayed by personal entreaty is appalling.

Thank you for this, it's stated very well.

[BarTopDancer]

God is in the TV.