Sooooo.....

[Alex]

What age kid are we talking about? A lot of it is probably just learning out to express certain thoughts with more precision. If I were to say "faith is stupid" I wouldn't mean it in the same way as "drunk driving is stupid."

But over the years I've also learned a better vocabulary for such discussions that creates the distinctions I'm trying to make.

[Capt Jack]

Originally Posted by alphabassettgrrl

So it's been clarified to me that good tequila makes all the difference. We got a couple sample bottles, and tested them against each other. Our tastes align, which surprises me. There's only one of the four we tried that we put in a different order.

excellent. I do enjoy a good tequila...and even the occasional bad one, just to remind me of the actual distance between the two. Ive been attending the occasional TQ tasting locally and have been quite surprised at who likes what characteristics and how varied those opinions can be.

which ones did you try? Id be most curious to know how you ranked what

[Ghoulish Delight]

Damn this societies obsession with celebrities' personal lives. Can't we just let Tiger go back to banging random blondes? It was much more fun to watch him play golf while that was happening.

[JWBear]

We just had a fire drill. Why couldn't thay have waited until next week, when I'll be on vacation? Yay.

[MouseWife]

Again, thank all of you for your responses. I love that there are so many varied opinions. Hard to talk with people around me as they think I have not done my job by not taking him to church. {Thanks, Greg, I needed to hear that I am handling it well..I am trying!}

My son is 16. It has been a few years since he has been expressing these views. Before that it wasn't really a topic we discussed.


BTD~good point. If you have the confidence to succeed, that is what you need. I've had people tell me 'You can DO it' when I know darn well I can't. ha ha

Morri~ I loved your point...until GD posted his view. True, we can feel the wind and we have seen its' effects upon our yard. BUT I got what you meant.

Alex~ you are right. That is how he believes. If there is no basis, etc. I also like your response about prayer. That is how I've come to feel. But, I still, when times are very tough, light a candle and send my thoughts of well being when someone is sick or hurt. It makes me feel better? Because there is nothing else I can do? My son has said this, too. People pray because that is all they can do sometimes. But that it doesn't change anything.

GD~ I will have to look into those books. One thing I've learned, being as old as I am, you do have to let them think for themselves. Isn't that what we want? To be able to think for ourselves and be confident in that.

You and CP are very smart and I always knew you'd tackle this issue of parenting wisely. I have books for almost every step of the way. LOL Even puberty. ha ha I have a 'handbook' for kids and it says that most of the things my teens have put me through are perfectly normal. They do say hurtful things but they don't mean it. They really don't.

That is also a good point, to ask him what he is afraid of. From what I've seen, not much. He is careful not to get hurt, though. Okay, now, this I feel came from the deaths of his grandmother/uncle. She died when he was 9, the uncle when he was 12. That is maybe when he started to question the afterlife, also. About that time, though, he started to refuse to ride roller coasters and refused to go for a ride on the motorcycle my husband picked up. He worried about anyone on them. When asked to go ride he would say 'I don't want to die'. I tip toe around this one as I am not sure how to deal with it. I was quite pissed when my husband took him {@ 12} to see his uncle at the morgue. After I had explicitly told him not to.

He doesn't care too much how his food is prepared BUT funny that you mention it because we took him to eat at Olvera St. and he saw the 'B' {or maybe a 'C'} and asked what it meant. We told him. He was like 'And you brought me here to eat???? We laughed and told him it was okay.

LOL Alex, his vocabulary, yes, he does need to pick it up. He is reading a lot more these days and I think that will help.

A big thing that occurred to me. Growing up, I did have a lot of faith, deep love for Jesus and the church. What I have seen happening as time goes on, other issues coming into play. Like, dinosaurs, fossils, the age of the earth. I embrace all of those facts. Unfortunately, some people say you can't have both. What? Why not?

We have fossils along our walkway {we've collected them out where they'd prepared land for building and some other places}. My father in law came up and was looking at them. My husband was so proud of his finds. His picked one up and said 'These are fake'. We were like no way. I forget but he said carbon dating is a lie and that the scientists just want to discredit the bible. Why?

ugh.

Again, thanks all of you for your input!!! I wish we could bring this curmudgeon of mine to have coffee with all of you. He could very much benefit.

And, me? I could benefit from some of that tequila!!!

[MouseWife]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Damn this societies obsession with celebrities' personal lives. Can't we just let Tiger go back to banging random blondes? It was much more fun to watch him play golf while that was happening.

Agreed. Now all we hear about are his not so good shots.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by MouseWife

A big thing that occurred to me. Growing up, I did have a lot of faith, deep love for Jesus and the church. What I have seen happening as time goes on, other issues coming into play. Like, dinosaurs, fossils, the age of the earth. I embrace all of those facts. Unfortunately, some people say you can't have both. What? Why not?

Because either you believe that Jesus is the son of a god who created the earth ~6000 years ago, or you accept that the observable evidence shows that the earth has existed for billions of years. They are pretty much mutually exclusive world views as they profoundly contradict each other in every way. And since the divinity of Jesus kinda rests on the unquestioned validity of what's in the bible/torah, it's hard for me to understand how one can say, "Well, it's got the whole age of the earth and origins of life thing completely and utterly wrong...but the rest is totally spot on."

[Chernabog]

Originally Posted by MouseWife

So. I tell him 'I do believe in the power of people and positive vibes/thinking. I light candles, to me that light gives a vibe/power/mojo to whatever it is I am asking. I don't know what to say. People say 'Pray for so and so' but I tell them I will send them my positive thoughts and love.'

I asked, in this situation, if we pray to God, even those of us who do not pray, are we using God as a broker for our prayers? And, are prayers 'religious' or are they just wishes for positive results?

For me, I pray that I see God's will for me. That's the way I was "taught" to pray, and it seems to work a lot better, for me, than the view of God as Santa Claus or the Blue Fairy, granting wishes.

[alphabassettgrrl]

Originally Posted by MouseWife

So, I am torn. I do not like to insult the people I care about who do have faith. I also do not like being made to feel like a heathen because I don't agree. Or can't be turned.

But, what do you guys think about 'prayer'? I believe in the power of positive thought. What do you think/feel when someone asks you to pray for someone/something?

I think faith is much more interesting and varied than those believers who make you feel bad would like to believe. I see no reason why we all must believe exactly the same things or the same way.

Originally Posted by Alex

I think prayer can help the person making the prayer as a form of focusing oneself. I don't think the prayer itself directly does anything. I also don't think that prayer on behalf of someone else does anything.
...snip...
I certainly don't offer Christian prayers since the idea of an omniscient/omnipotent entity that can be swayed by personal entreaty is appalling.

Well put, Alex. I agree completely except I do think praying for another can have an effect. Don't ask me how, but I do think it can help. Certainly does zero harm. Not that I see "god" the same way that I think the vast majority of people do, but still. Maybe any effect that comes from prayer actually has something to do with the net of energy that I believe flows through all things that exist or with metaphysics, in our thoughts creating our world.

Originally Posted by Capt Jack

I do enjoy a good tequila...and even the occasional bad one, just to remind me of the actual distance between the two. Ive been attending the occasional TQ tasting locally and have been quite surprised at who likes what characteristics and how varied those opinions can be.

which ones did you try? Id be most curious to know how you ranked what

I liked the Cofradia label reposado one the best, followed by 1800 reposado, followed by Patron Silver, and Patron anejo. Husband put the 1800 behind the Patron, but otherwise had the same order.

[MouseWife]

GD~ I read your post...what do you think? Okay, this may come up with you and Theo at some point {or not}. My niece has her daughter in Christian school. Yet, she took her to the Natural History Museum...isn't that a contradiction? Or is it? My great niece was very offended thinking she came from monkeys. Yet, how does this play in with the museum? {the fossils, etc.}
It is very confusing. I love the fish with the feet. That represents both, right?

Chernabog~ that is a good point. To pray for strength, guidance, you mean? Or do you mean that whatever his will be as far as someones' health? {as when someone asks for prayer when someone is injured/sick} LOL No one really prays for money and material things, do they?

Oh wait, I did pray for people to have jobs/security....but that wasn't for ME, that was for everyone.

abg~ True. And, I think these people who point things out don't go into the fact that they are just paraphrasing what THEY want to. Taking words out of context, mostly. To scare, I think. Using the words to their advantage. To scare their kids, to keep their wives in line, to feel better than other people.

I also feel that it gives *something* to the cause to send positive thoughts. A connection? Not sure.