The Gay Thread - Page 79

JWBear · 11-04-2010, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Except to get to the point of hypocrisy you first have to make an armchair call about his sexuality.

Plus, the hypocrisy is irrelevant. What he's done is no more or less offensive if he's straight or gay. He's a bigoted asshole and a bully either way.

Ok... What if there was a man who was preaching discrimination and hatred against black people. Several African-Americans state they suspect that he is, in fact, a light skined African-American himself who is "passing" and call him out on his hypocrisy. Are they then being racist?

innerSpaceman · 11-04-2010, 01:06 PM

Exactly. If he were on a crusade about anti-gang violence, I would not approve of anyone calling him a queer.

When someone is practicing hypocrisy, one has no choice but to point out the state of the individual that gives rise to it. In this case, the observation that Shirvell is gay himself is absolutely necessary to the case against him.

Alex · 11-04-2010, 01:37 PM

I guess the disconnect here is in "I think he's gay therefore it is ok to judge him for being gay and anti-gay."

To me (and presumably to others) whether you think he's gay has little to do with he actually is gay and conforming to a stereotype is not evidence.

But whatever, it is enlightening to learn that it is ok to just take as fact that a swishy man (whatever that may mean to the individual observer) is gay and then treat him accordingly.

Ghoulish Delight · 11-04-2010, 02:15 PM

Yes.

ETA: I'll amend that. Would I specifically apply the term "racist"? No. Nor would I (and I have not) apply the term "anti gay" or "homophobic" or "gay bashing" to calling Shirvell a closet case. But I still call it counterproductive and borderline offensive.

innerSpaceman · 11-04-2010, 02:20 PM

Alright, well agree to disagree then.

Perhaps it might be helpful to consider that all the gay people posting in this thread see it as perfectly appropriate to call Shirvell out as a self-loathing homo, while all the straight people do not.

I just know that if Welshmen felt a certain way about doings in Wales, and I, being from Los Angeles, saw it differently - - I might give some credence to the notion that the Welshman groks something I don't.

Alex · 11-04-2010, 02:32 PM

The big disconnect is that you seem to be saying that since you think he is gay, that he is gay. And therefore can be treated appropriately.

Which, from my point of view is nonsensical.

I'd have no problem with calling him out (though I wouldn't think it necessarily relevant) if we knew him to be gay. Just because you say he is does not, to me, mean he is. And therefore saying he should be branded a hypocrite does not strike me as fine regardless of how ok all the gay people are with it.

Gemini Cricket · 11-04-2010, 02:39 PM

So if Shirvell comes out of the closet, can we hit him with our purses then?

innerSpaceman · 11-04-2010, 02:58 PM

What is this "treated appropriately" stuff, Alex? How are you going to treat him differently if he is gay? To me, that's been the most disturbing statement in this thread - and now that you've made it (at least) twice, I'm going to ask what you mean by that.

If he's gay, then he's a hypocrite as well as a bigoted bully. That may change how we regard him, but is that all you mean by "treated appropriately?" Or do you intend that he receive stiffer punishment if he's also a hypocrite? Or a certain kind of stiffer punishment if he's gay?

Alex · 11-04-2010, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

If he's gay, then he's a hypocrite as well as a bigoted bully. That may change how we regard him, but is that all you mean by "treated appropriately?"

Yes, Steve. Be scared. Whenever I find out someone is gay I go beat them with rocks while rolling them in melted Tootsie rolls and making buttsex jokes.

You gave an example of what I mean in what I've just quoted. First sentence. All I mean is that because you think he's gay, it is apparently ok to treat him as gay, whatever that means. Maybe it is just that you'll call him different names on message boads. Maybe it is that you'll view his positions as unworthy of consideration because he's just a self loathing fag whereas you'd respond differently if he were simply a self-rightous douche. Maybe it means I'll campaign for him to be the grand marshall of next year's WeHo Halloween parade.

My issue is not with what it means if he's gay. My issue is with it being apparently ok to determine he's gay by vote.

JWBear · 11-04-2010, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

Whenever I find out someone is gay I go beat them with rocks while rolling them in melted Tootsie rolls and making buttsex jokes.

Talking like will get you a date in some circles.

11-04-2010, 01:06 PM	#2
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	Exactly. If he were on a crusade about anti-gang violence, I would not approve of anyone calling him a queer. When someone is practicing hypocrisy, one has no choice but to point out the state of the individual that gives rise to it. In this case, the observation that Shirvell is gay himself is absolutely necessary to the case against him.
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11-04-2010, 01:37 PM	#3
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	I guess the disconnect here is in "I think he's gay therefore it is ok to judge him for being gay and anti-gay." To me (and presumably to others) whether you think he's gay has little to do with he actually is gay and conforming to a stereotype is not evidence. But whatever, it is enlightening to learn that it is ok to just take as fact that a swishy man (whatever that may mean to the individual observer) is gay and then treat him accordingly.
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11-04-2010, 02:15 PM	#4
Ghoulish Delight I Floop the Pig Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alternative Swankstyle Posts: 19,348	Yes. ETA: I'll amend that. Would I specifically apply the term "racist"? No. Nor would I (and I have not) apply the term "anti gay" or "homophobic" or "gay bashing" to calling Shirvell a closet case. But I still call it counterproductive and borderline offensive. __________________ 'He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.' -TJ
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11-04-2010, 02:20 PM	#5
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	Alright, well agree to disagree then. Perhaps it might be helpful to consider that all the gay people posting in this thread see it as perfectly appropriate to call Shirvell out as a self-loathing homo, while all the straight people do not. I just know that if Welshmen felt a certain way about doings in Wales, and I, being from Los Angeles, saw it differently - - I might give some credence to the notion that the Welshman groks something I don't.
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11-04-2010, 02:32 PM	#6
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	The big disconnect is that you seem to be saying that since you think he is gay, that he is gay. And therefore can be treated appropriately. Which, from my point of view is nonsensical. I'd have no problem with calling him out (though I wouldn't think it necessarily relevant) if we knew him to be gay. Just because you say he is does not, to me, mean he is. And therefore saying he should be branded a hypocrite does not strike me as fine regardless of how ok all the gay people are with it.
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11-04-2010, 02:39 PM	#7
Gemini Cricket ... Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,244	So if Shirvell comes out of the closet, can we hit him with our purses then?
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11-04-2010, 02:58 PM	#8
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	What is this "treated appropriately" stuff, Alex? How are you going to treat him differently if he is gay? To me, that's been the most disturbing statement in this thread - and now that you've made it (at least) twice, I'm going to ask what you mean by that. If he's gay, then he's a hypocrite as well as a bigoted bully. That may change how we regard him, but is that all you mean by "treated appropriately?" Or do you intend that he receive stiffer punishment if he's also a hypocrite? Or a certain kind of stiffer punishment if he's gay?
	Submit to Quotes