Riding crop costumes go bye bye

[SzczerbiakManiac]

Originally Posted by Prudence

Fat people are, by definition, ugly.

Nope. A fat person, by definition, is less attractive than if that same person was not fat. Less Attractive is not the same as Ugly.

And just to clarify, I'm talking about physical attractiveness.

Originally Posted by Prudence

The corollary is that skinny people are presumed attractive

Nope. A skinny person is presumed to be less unattractive than if that same person was fat. Skinny does not equal attractive.

Prudence, while it's impossible to get an accurate reading on one's true feelings via text, I get the impression the nature of this discussion is quite emotional for you and it may be coloring your judgement of the situation. If you'll forgive the unsolicited advice, you might want to take a few steps back, wait a while, and come back when you've had some time to ruminate on the topic. We're you're friends here and I'm positive nobody is attacking you.

[Capt Jack]

Originally Posted by SzczerbiakManiac

Nope. A fat person, by definition, is less attractive than if that same person was not fat. Less Attractive is not the same as Ugly.

And just to clarify, I'm talking about physical attractiveness.
Nope. A skinny person is presumed to be less unattractive than if that same person was fat. Skinny does not equal attractive.

ok, was gonna stay out of the rest of this but this is just outright wrong.
BY DEFINITION: attractiveness is totally subjective, fat, skinny, black white, green....5 heads or a long scaley tail......please dont attempt to define attractiveness. YOU cannot do so for anyone but YOURSELF.

"A skinny person is presumed to be less unattractive than if that same person was fat. "
what an entirely over the top generalization that I have to say I resent. Please, dont speak for me on such a subject.

[Ponine]

Oh Jack.. I dont think thats what he meant.

Take a deep breath and hang in there. I have never met Sz.. but I think I can say that in no way is that what he was trying to do.

[BarTopDancer]

.

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

Everyone PLEASE take a deep breath and calm down. Feelings are getting hurt and trampled on, snarkiness is starting to reign in this thread.

The fact of the matter is simple: Some classic costumes are being done away with for a more generic costume instead of making another unique costume that is flattering to more people. I think the outrage going on is that a generic costume that will work on a wider range of people is replacing a classic costume instead of another area specific costume that would work on a wider range of people.

As much as we don't want to, we must come to terms with reality: Disneyland is 1) not the park of 1955 anymore 2) having massive personnal issues and cannot be picky in who they cast for what roles, 3) attempting to resolve issues in the cheapest way possible.

It is so hard to tell tone over the internet, we all know that. But some of these posts... are shocking. If I didn't already know the people these posts were coming from I'd be stunned into silence at the meanness and judgementalness coming from them. Actually, I am. Wow. I never thought that I'd be reading what I have been from the people who have been writing it. I thought we were better than this.

[Prudence]

Originally Posted by SzczerbiakManiac

Prudence, while it's impossible to get an accurate reading on one's true feelings via text, I get the impression the nature of this discussion is quite emotional for you and it may be coloring your judgement of the situation. If you'll forgive the unsolicited advice, you might want to take a few steps back, wait a while, and come back when you've had some time to ruminate on the topic. We're you're friends here and I'm positive nobody is attacking you.

And why the hell wouldn't I be emotional? A bunch of people I thought I might be friends with some day are outright advocating employment decisions based on weight -- not because of the objective requirements of the position, but because they'd rather look at skinny people.

Theme park employees should be hotties, because that's what you're paying to go see. Wait staff should be hotties, because that's why you eat out. Receptionists should be hotties because they're the face of the company. And so it goes. If you indulge in that thinking, then regardless of the field or position there is ALWAYS a reason to hire the hottie and not, well, me. If I had a dollar for everytime a prospective employer told me that I just "didn't project the right image...." -- because goodness knows one wants the backroom file clerk to project the right image. But hey, given the choice between the skinny applicant and the fat applicant, why not hire the skinny one? After all, they'll be better to look at day after day.

Obviously it's "the way things are." I experience it every day. However, that doesn't meant that I have to passively accept it, let alone personally perpetuate it.

But I still have to wonder -- if y'all feel that strongly about looking at hot bodies when you're out and about, why would you voluntarily associate with those you know don't make the grade? The message here has been pretty clear -- given the choice, people would rather look at skinny people. There is nothing so fabulous about my personality that would make up for my appearance. I'm not able to shower my friends with riches. Just a big lump of fat with a person somewhere deep down inside.

[SzczerbiakManiac]

Originally Posted by Capt Jack

BY DEFINITION: attractiveness is totally subjective, fat, skinny, black white, green....5 heads or a long scaley tail......please dont attempt to define attractiveness. YOU cannot do so for anyone but YOURSELF.

You're absolutely right! I can't dictate you what you or any specific person feels. I can report on national averages, or even overwhelming majorities though. When speaking about matters of personal taste, it's inherent in the subject that individual tastes will vary. I sort of figured we were all hip to that and that it didn't need to be mentioned.

To put it a different way, I have never said that every single person in the country likes the taste of chocolate. Obviously some people don't like it, may be allergic to it, etcetera. But it's obvious to pretty much everyone, chocolate is very, very popular. So if I make an egregious generalization that people love chocolate, to me it's assumed that there are exceptions to the rule that are so obvious, they don't need to be stated.

Originally Posted by Capt Jack

what an entirely over the top generalization that I have to say I resent.

By all means, resent it as much as you like. Your or my resentment of a generalization does not change the fact that the generalization may, in fact, be accurate.

Originally Posted by Capt Jack

Please, dont speak for me on such a subject.

Originally Posted by SzczerbiakManiac

Just to clarify, my previous comments were not meant to speak for any specific person, merely society as a whole.

[Capt Jack]

fair enough.

I wont debate the accuracy (the lack thereof?) of most generalizations but I will indeed apologize for the rather heated reply to something taken (obviously) totally out of context.

my bad
*flashes a peace sign*

[innerSpaceman]

Yeah, I'm one of those freaks who are actually allergic to chocolate, and if someone claims that everyone loves the stuff, I understand the distinction. So let's not get all picky on the common-sensical assumption that Person A would be a more attractive Person A if they were a thin Person A rather than a fat Person A.

I would be a more attractive Person B if I were a taller Person B. It's a generalization, yes. But let's not get absurd in pointing out the exceptions. Obviously, there are people who find me attractive (hi there, zappp sweetie) at my little boy height.


* * * * *

Prudence, when I posted about apples and oranges, I meant we shouldn't confuse a hiring situation with a casting situation. Casting almost always involves the matter of matching physical appearance to the perceived requirements of a role.

I would never support hiring based on the same requirements. I don't know why, for instance, restaurants might hire cutie waiters as a preference. I don't see how it makes them more money ... but they have a right to think otherwise. My own hiring practices would be different if I owned a restaurant.

If I owned Disneyland, however, there would still be that scale behind the desk at City Hall.


Please don't presume to dictate that I must equate my casting practices with my friendship practices. You are way off base with that assumption. I am not selling widgets when I engage in friendships.

[katiesue]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

I think most of us know that it's not weight, or lack thereof, that makes you attractive or sexy, it's your personality and attitude.

I agree completely. You should judge people based on their insides not their outsides. And yes society as a whole is quite judgmental. Not everyone is a size 6 blonde double D. But lots of the hottest guys/gals when you really start taking into account looks only - aren't always the perfect looking ones. It's the imperfections and personality shining through that makes them attractive to others.

[SzczerbiakManiac]

Originally Posted by Prudence

And why the hell wouldn't I be emotional?

I didn't say you shouldn't be emotional. I suggested your emotions may be coloring your judgement. Here's one example of why I think that:

Originally Posted by Prudence

Wait staff should be hotties, because that's why you eat out.

None has actually said that. Here's what was said: (I added the emphasis)

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

When I go to a restaurant, I'm looking for a good meal and not hotties to ogle.

Do you see what I mean? iSm said one thing and you extrapolated that to be something else. Your emotions, valid as they maybe, appear to be making you see something that's not there.

Originally Posted by Prudence

If you indulge in that thinking, then regardless of the field or position there is ALWAYS a reason to hire the hottie and not, well, me. <snip> Obviously it's "the way things are." I experience it every day. However, that doesn't meant that I have to passively accept it, let alone personally perpetuate it.

I'm going to put this in spoiler text because I know a lot of people are going to HATE to see it. Do not open the box if you are easily offended. (I am not kidding, open at your own risk.!)

Spoiler:

You can also choose not to passively accept that the world is round, but that doesn't change reality. So we as fat folks have a some choices:

• Bitch, moan, and get our feelings hurt
• Change society's perceptions of fat people
• Lose weight

One of those choices is easy, but won't make us feel any better in the long run. The other two are tough, but if accomplished, will make us feel better. But no matter what, it's our choice!

Originally Posted by Prudence

But I still have to wonder -- if y'all feel that strongly about looking at hot bodies when you're out and about, why would you voluntarily associate with those you know don't make the grade?

Because we like you, silly—and don't forget it! Life and friendships aren't just about getting aroused from looking at a hottie. Believe it or not, the vacuous masses here on the LoT can see past physical appearances. And speaking as a fat, bald, and (physically) ugly person, I'm glad they do. I don't give a flying fück if someone at a Park meet is eye-candy. I care that they are fun to hang out with. You, my dear, fit the bill quite nicely.

[hugs]