Israel, Lebanon, and Gaza - Page 8

Nephythys · 07-14-2006, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

Actually, what is a shame is a lack of ability to actually have a discussion rather than an argument. 99% of the people on this board have NO problem having intelligent discussions with little or no issue and lots of respect. It's funny how adding just one bit of vitrol to the mix can change the discussions from intelligent and thoughtful to down right worthless.

It's a pattern I only see with a few her on LoT but it gets tiring none the less:
* Poke
* Provoke
* Become Indignent about obvious response.

I don't come to poke- I state my opinions- you choose to get poked by them. BOTH sides provoke- to deny otherwise is dishonest to an extreme. I am also not indignant- you would do well to stop making assumptions on my mood since you clearly have no idea.

Not Afraid · 07-14-2006, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nephythys

I don't come to poke- I state my opinions- you choose to get poked by them. BOTH sides provoke- to deny otherwise is dishonest to an extreme. I am also not indignant- you would do well to stop making assumptions on my mood since you clearly have no idea.

Uh huh.

That's why the rest of us can have decent discussions most of the time.

scaeagles · 07-14-2006, 12:25 PM

The Russians? Interesting. Please expand.

Stan4dSteph · 07-14-2006, 12:26 PM

I believe Russia actively sells arms to the non-Israeli countries in the region. Is that the reason?

Russia is a bit of a sleeping dragon at the moment, I think, but that's a topic for another thread...

Alex · 07-14-2006, 12:39 PM

The whole process of Britain creating a new homeland for the Jews was begun with the Balfour Declaration (which was helped along by Britain coming to control much of the Arabian territory previously under Turkish Empire control after World War I - that is they suddenly came into possession of a bunch of land that was in no way culturally British. Of course this was at odds with the British promise of independence for Arabs (as dramatized in Lawrence of Arabia).

Popular support for something like the Balfour Declaration built in Western Europe (and in Britain particularly) as a response to the brutal anti-Jewish pograms that had been going on in Russia for most of the previous 50 years and seemed to slowly be spreading west (Poland had joined in and virulent anti-Semitism was seen to be shifting from isolation to violence in many other European locations). The Dreyfus trial in France caused a lot of sympathy for the mistreatment of Jews among certain classes of Europeans and then it was brought into stark relief in 1911 when a sham "blood libel" trial was brought again a man by the name of Beilis in Kiev. He was accused of murdering a child for use in a Jewish blood ritual.

The trial was widely seen as a sham and despite an acquittal by an all-Christian jury (despite an exceedingly unfair trial) a lot of sympathy swung towards European Jewry and the obstacles they faced. For decades Jews had been escaping Russia back to the Holy Lands where wealthy Jews in Europe supported them with donations to purchase land.

For many "enlightened" Europeans the answer was essentially what some Americans were trying to do with the creation of Liberia. Avoid the conflict by removing them from the sphere of conflict. Some people simply wanted to be helpful. Other supporters were purely anti-Semitic and hoped all the Jews would leave Europe.

But it probably would never have been a successful endeavor if the Russian pogroms and Beilis trial had never happened (in coincidental conjunction with the ending of World War I on geographical terms favorable to England).

scaeagles · 07-14-2006, 12:38 PM

I am shocked at that comment, NA. Utterly, utterly shocked.

(get it? Indignant?)

scaeagles · 07-14-2006, 12:42 PM

Interesting history lesson of which a lot I was ignorant of. Thanks.

Not Afraid · 07-14-2006, 01:16 PM

LOL!

We could play a drinking game!

Nephythys · 07-14-2006, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

LOL!

We could play a drinking game!

what would the rules be?

€uroMeinke · 07-14-2006, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nephythys

what would the rules be?

A shot for each snark - don't you think?

07-14-2006, 12:25 PM	#3
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	The Russians? Interesting. Please expand.
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07-14-2006, 12:26 PM	#4
Stan4dSteph Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: East Bay Area, CA Posts: 3,156	I believe Russia actively sells arms to the non-Israeli countries in the region. Is that the reason? Russia is a bit of a sleeping dragon at the moment, I think, but that's a topic for another thread...
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07-14-2006, 12:39 PM	#5
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	The whole process of Britain creating a new homeland for the Jews was begun with the Balfour Declaration (which was helped along by Britain coming to control much of the Arabian territory previously under Turkish Empire control after World War I - that is they suddenly came into possession of a bunch of land that was in no way culturally British. Of course this was at odds with the British promise of independence for Arabs (as dramatized in Lawrence of Arabia). Popular support for something like the Balfour Declaration built in Western Europe (and in Britain particularly) as a response to the brutal anti-Jewish pograms that had been going on in Russia for most of the previous 50 years and seemed to slowly be spreading west (Poland had joined in and virulent anti-Semitism was seen to be shifting from isolation to violence in many other European locations). The Dreyfus trial in France caused a lot of sympathy for the mistreatment of Jews among certain classes of Europeans and then it was brought into stark relief in 1911 when a sham "blood libel" trial was brought again a man by the name of Beilis in Kiev. He was accused of murdering a child for use in a Jewish blood ritual. The trial was widely seen as a sham and despite an acquittal by an all-Christian jury (despite an exceedingly unfair trial) a lot of sympathy swung towards European Jewry and the obstacles they faced. For decades Jews had been escaping Russia back to the Holy Lands where wealthy Jews in Europe supported them with donations to purchase land. For many "enlightened" Europeans the answer was essentially what some Americans were trying to do with the creation of Liberia. Avoid the conflict by removing them from the sphere of conflict. Some people simply wanted to be helpful. Other supporters were purely anti-Semitic and hoped all the Jews would leave Europe. But it probably would never have been a successful endeavor if the Russian pogroms and Beilis trial had never happened (in coincidental conjunction with the ending of World War I on geographical terms favorable to England).
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07-14-2006, 12:38 PM	#6
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	I am shocked at that comment, NA. Utterly, utterly shocked. (get it? Indignant?)
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07-14-2006, 12:42 PM	#7
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	Interesting history lesson of which a lot I was ignorant of. Thanks.
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07-14-2006, 01:16 PM	#8
Not Afraid HI! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 17,108	LOL! We could play a drinking game!
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