Do you believe in God?

[Alex]

Ok, but my experience is that when most people say things like "science is just another kind of faith" they don't mean what you say you mean, though I still disagree with what you mean as even under those conditions I don't see anything resembling "faith". I don't have "faith" that the base assumptions are true, I only hold to those base assumptions so long as they are seem to better explain observation than other assumptions. That, to me, is pretty much the opposite of faith.

But if god wants to be a liar (and, for example, create a universe that only looks old but was actually created 97 minutes ago), it can't blame me for believing him. Also, it's an ass.

[Not Afraid]

I believe we've moved on from God to semantics.
I think we've moved on from God to semantics.
I have faith that we've moved on from God to semantics.
I theorize we've moved on from God to semantics.
I feel we've moved on from God to semantics.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

I feel we've moved on from God to semantics.

Semantics, from dictionary.com:
The meaning, or an interpretation of the meaning, of a word, sign, sentence, etc.

In a thread about whether God exists, which will obviously bleed over into discussions of faith, proof, science, and existence, I'm not too surprised that discussions of meanings of terms gets involved as well. I'm digging reading it, at least.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

But you cannot prove that we've moved on from God to semantics, can ya?

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

But you cannot prove that we've moved on from God to semantics, can ya?

I probably could, but that would mean I would have to put forth some effort and I don't believe that I actually want to do that.

[RStar]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

I probably could, but that would mean I would have to put forth some effort and I don't believe that I actually want to do that.

I'm with you, L!

This is too exausting....

[€uroMeinke]

I'm more interested in discovering what people believe in than in challenging or defending any particular belief. I find the former enlightening and the latter futile in most instances.

[Alex]

And I find what people believe about god to be pretty uninteresting (it is pretty much all equally nonsensical to me) but why they believe it and how they differentiate what they consider nonsense from what they don't consider nonsense that I find interesting.

Though I have tried to avoid actually challenging anybody's beliefs or forcing them to defend them. I try to keep things in terms of exploring the specifics of what they believe. But I may have failed at that (I have certainly challenged how certain words are used but then I think any discussion at all, on any topic, is futile if there isn't some agreement on what the words used mean).

[innerSpaceman]

Frogberto, I am finding your science rants interesting ... but they are indeed, in compendum, amounting to a constant challenging of people's expressed beliefs. Counterpoint is one thing, but it's almost approaching beratement at this point.

While I cannot direct the course of discussion, my opinion is also that it would be nice to discuss the whys of folks' godish beliefs, the nature of them, how they arose, what experiences reinforce them or challenge them, etc. ... and to have less of the anti-god stance of science that has been presented so exhaustively and eloquently.



just a suggestion.

[€uroMeinke]

Well, I don't mean to quash any discussion. It's just that I find the exposition of scientific fact to be not much different than the quoting of scripture. People usually don't come to their beliefs from a point of pure logical reasoning, rather the use such things to bolster and defend beliefs they already hold. So while such arguments may be interesting lesson in logic and a reccounting of the various historical proofs and rebuttles, I find they seldom get to our personal "numinous" experience.

But, you see, I come at this as a way to understand other people, not as an exercise to come to truth or even verisimilitude. Our beliefs make us what we are - or so I believe anyway

Cheers, and keep on posting