Addiction in America

[Gn2Dlnd]

Well, apparently Divine Universal Intelligence has decided that I'm to revisit the topic of Steve's (my ex) death. This morning, on my way to work, I saw the guy that was Steve's BF when he died. I hauled a u-turn in the middle of Vine street hollering this guy's name, he was just as freaked to see me as I was to see him. I haven't seen this guy in about 5 years, when I moved out of crazyhouse. Why I moved into crazyhouse in the first place deserves it's own thread. Anyhow, I found out about Steve's death about two years after the fact, from the people who had moved into the house when Steve died and his BF moved out. Nobody contacted me, and I had no contact number, or even a last name to work with for the BF. I didn't have much of an emotional reaction at the time, because I had anticipated Steve's death for such a long time.

This morning I finally lost it.

After getting his number and getting back into my truck, I experienced the kind of howling emotional freakout normally reserved for seeing airliners crash into skyscrapers.

I'm absolutely gobsmacked. A large part of living sober is learning to live with unresolved issues. I've been given an incredible opportunity to lay some of my worst demons to rest.

Think what you like, this, to me, is evidence of a Higher Power at work.

[Ponine]

I know that I am coming into the party very late, but since I dont post on the weekends, I felt like I ditched the thread.

I have to say that I know a great many people feel they owe their lives or their sanity to AA.
Good for you, I am glad it worked for you.
If you started going to church after your recovery, again, I am pleased.

I however, have to admit that I'm with Alex. To me, its bs. I attended AA meetings with a friend, and attended NAnon, and S-anon meetings after that.

Now, WHY... on earth did I want to sit on the s-anon meetings aas long as I did? I was told that becuase of another family members addiction that I needed them.
For two years I sat there and listened to how I would always be screwed up, and never have a normal relationship because of my relationship to an addict.
This is what it had done to the rest of my life.
Never mind that I hadnt shared a home with that addict for over ten years.
But I had the markers.
I was co-dependant, I was this, I was that.
And they wanted me to follow thier steps to get out of a situation that they felt I had, and no one had bothered to ask me about?

There are a great many addictions, I'm aware of that. And the type or even the level of addiction changes everything from one person to another.

I am not surprised by the stats in the OP. I am saddened by them.
But I cannot tell any one how to recover from their adiction, nor can I ask or prod anyone to.
How am I to know they wont think exactly what I did? That I am the one saying they are ill, or an addict, when they dont think they are.

My two cents.

[MouseWife]

Ponine~ While I know people who have benefited from AA, I also feel as you do about myself and Al-Anon.

While going through all that we have, we were told to go to Al-Anon. To help us deal with these people. {the ones who have passed away} I was like, no way. I don't need help, they do and they aren't even trying so don't tell me I have the problem.

I never went to those meetings and I am fine. Sure, there are always issues to be dealt with but in time I feel I can.

So, like with the AA meetings, if you need them, go. I guess there are people who go to Al-Anon and get from them but not me.

And, I didn't like how it was presented to me, like here, you are having problems in accepting this/these person/people, this is what you need. Nope, what I needed was them out of my life and that solved it all. Of course, them dying wasn't the answer I wanted but that was out of my hands.

Gn2Dlnd~I do think that is amazing that you saw this person right after your post.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Ponine

I am not surprised by the stats in the OP. I am saddened by them.

Not to dial things back to Square One, but I am surprised and dismayed by many of those stats.


Wow, 18 million American Alcoholics is alot. So why is all the political hay made about the (comparatively) paltry 3.6 million who are drug addicts? I'm not for prohibition, which was morally wrong and absolutely unworkable ... but obviously the booze problem is many magnitudes more dangerous than the drug problem.

Ironically (or maybe quite purposely), keeping booze legal and drugs illegal makes sure that the violence associated with both types of substances remains at maximum.


Then ... 18 million alcoholics and .... 16 million sex addicts?!!? Ok, sex addiction probably doesn't wreck lives to the degree that alcohol addiction does ... but if the numbers of sex addicts approaches the astronomical numbers of alcoholics, that's big news that's been swept under the rug.


Last on my dismayed list is that there are only 1.5 times more drug addicts than gambling addicts. Gambling addicts destroy their lives as surely and completely as any meth head ... so again, a problem this large has been swept under the rug.


Follow the money, and you'll see why some addictions get no press, why others are kept criminilized and warriorized, and others are legal to pursue and abuse.

Pfft, 71 million tobacco addicts makes all others pale in comparison.

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by Ponine

But I cannot tell any one how to recover from their adiction, nor can I ask or prod anyone to.
How am I to know they wont think exactly what I did? That I am the one saying they are ill, or an addict, when they dont think they are.

You can't tell them how to recover, but you CAN set boundaries and limits to what type of behavior you will accept from the addict. I think that is where Alanon tries to help. I don't know much about alanon. I did go to a women's retreat one time with both AA and Alanon women and I wanted to slap 90% the Alanon people - bunch of whiners. But, setting boundaries ad limits hasn't been one of my bigger problems in 25 years or so.

I think all of the programs are about responsibility. What you are responsible for and what you are not. Somehow our culture has a pretty messed up sense of that that comes with a lot of guilt. So, people take on the responsibility for stuff that doesn't really belong to them. The "anonymous" programs tend to help straighten that out.

But, some people LIKE to stew in their shyt. It may be bad, but it is comfortable. And, co-dependent, alcoholic, addict, whatever - you have to get tired of where you are at and be willing to change. No one can help you if you're not willing to accept help.

[MouseWife]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

You can't tell them how to recover, but you CAN set boundaries and limits to what type of behavior you will accept from the addict. I think that is where Alanon tries to help. I don't know much about alanon.
But, some people LIKE to stew in their shyt. It may be bad, but it is comfortable. And, co-dependent, alcoholic, addict, whatever - you have to get tired of where you are at and be willing to change. No one can help you if you're not willing to accept help.

They wouldn't respect our boundaries so we cut them out. We set them, discussed them, and they ignored them. We were treated as if we had a problem, 'uptight'. Whatever.

I did not want to sit around and talk to other people about what was going on because I knew what I would put up with and what I would not. But, yes, NA, people accept too much. Family does not have the right to fun all over you and you don't have to take whatever they dish out.

A sad example of family just turning the other cheek to alcohol abuse~
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/m...1m15fatal.html

Some family was very upset with our decision to not allow them time with our kids unless they were sober. Sleepovers? Trips to the store? No way. I have some horrible stories from a nephew whose mother allowed such visits. More than what everyone knows, like, being taken home in a police car when the adult was hauled off to jail on a DUI {luckily he was a smart kid, young, and he could say how to get home}.....after tell the mom that he was at our house {a safe place} but instead was off, oh well...you all probably have similar stories....

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by MouseWife

They wouldn't respect our boundaries so we cut them out. We set them, discussed them, and they ignored them. We were treated as if we had a problem, 'uptight'. Whatever.

Yup. That's sometimes what it takes. I got that from my mother and evil sister. "I" was the one with the problem. But, their own thoughts are beyond my control. They are free to think and believe whatever they want. There really is only so much a person can do other than accept that you have no control, drop the baggage associated with it and move on to better things.

Great relationships are so much more fulfilling than fu<ked up ones. I don't have much time for the fu<ked up ones any more.

[Chernabog]

Originally Posted by Ponine

I know that I am coming into the party very late, but since I dont post on the weekends, I felt like I ditched the thread.

I have to say that I know a great many people feel they owe their lives or their sanity to AA.
Good for you, I am glad it worked for you.
If you started going to church after your recovery, again, I am pleased.

I however, have to admit that I'm with Alex. To me, its bs. I attended AA meetings with a friend, and attended NAnon, and S-anon meetings after that.

Out of curiosity, did you work the steps (I mean all 12). Did you get a sponsor? Write out your 4th step? Make amends? Going to meetings is great and all, but it is only one part of the recovery picture. I don't mean that as an attack or anything, it's just that a LOT of people think it is BS initially (including yours truly). But seeing that it HAS worked for so many people allowed me to keep an open mind and to reserve judgment until actually doing the ENTIRE program. ("Half-measures availed us nothing.") I mean, one does not go to to a 12-step program for fun, there has to have been some behaviour that made you seek it out.... are you still exhibiting that behaviour? (Again, I'm just curious). If there wasn't any negative behaviour to begin with then maybe you didn't belong in there to begin with.

Of course it is more amorphous when it refers to one's relationship issues with people (in the Al-Anon program) as opposed to ones relationship issues with a drug. However, there is something to be said about letting go of the things which you cannot control, i.e. other people. Letting someone else's psychological or physical state suck you down with them is not healthy (that's my understanding of what Al-Anon tries to help).

What I'm hearing though is that it didn't work FOR YOU (if you indeed needed it to begin with.)

But thankfully you are still keeping an open mind and not calling it a fraud, as Alex has done. (People in the program who are off drugs for a great many years as a result of working ALL the steps are just delusional? Oh dear lord no, they've been brainwashed and swindled into being productive members of society!)

To switch gears tho about the general topic - meth use is an epidemic right now in the gay community. That drug in particular, when you're on it, causes you to have an incredible (false) sense of security, power and energy that causes people to stop going to work, stop eating, stop sleeping, stop using condoms, stop being selective about their sexual partners, etc. etc. It is mentally and physically addicting and will turn you into a skeleton (literally and figuratively). Oh, and that's before the hallucinations and schizophrenic paranoia kicks in. (I am of the ilk that CERTAIN drugs should be legalized, i.e. pot, but certain other ones like meth and various Rx are SO incredibly physically addicting that they should not be just open for anyone. It would be like selling rat poison for human consumption, and for no other reason).

I think it was one of the former mayors of West Hollywood that had commented on how horrific it was that the gay community had survived the beatings and public revulsion/ridicule and the AIDS epidemic only to pop out the other end a community of meth addicts. Very sad indeed.

[Ponine]

Originally Posted by Chernabog

Out of curiosity, did you work the steps (I mean all 12). Did you get a sponsor? Write out your 4th step? Make amends? Going to meetings is great and all, but it is only one part of the recovery picture. I don't mean that as an attack or anything, it's just that a LOT of people think it is BS initially (including yours truly). But seeing that it HAS worked for so many people allowed me to keep an open mind and to reserve judgment until actually doing the ENTIRE program. ("Half-measures availed us nothing.") I mean, one does not go to to a 12-step program for fun, there has to have been some behaviour that made you seek it out.... are you still exhibiting that behaviour? (Again, I'm just curious). If there wasn't any negative behaviour to begin with then maybe you didn't belong in there to begin with.

Of course it is more amorphous when it refers to one's relationship issues with people (in the Al-Anon program) as opposed to ones relationship issues with a drug. However, there is something to be said about letting go of the things which you cannot control, i.e. other people. Letting someone else's psychological or physical state suck you down with them is not healthy (that's my understanding of what Al-Anon tries to help).

What I'm hearing though is that it didn't work FOR YOU (if you indeed needed it to begin with.)

okay, maybe if I posted this with some more details.
KNow that I didnt particulary want to air this laundry, but for the sake of not confusing the issue I will.

Yes, I had a sponsor, yes, I did what I was told step wise.
I was "instructed" so attended S-anon by my family, which I did, for over a year.
To deal with the issues that were manifested on me by my fathers addiction to sex.
Now, mind you, I havent lived with him since I was eight.
And I was "instructed" to enter S-anon until I was 24, and living three states away.

I have no idea if I exhibited any behavior to warrant sending me. It was something my family wanted me to do.

But when you barely know about the addiction, and dont live near it, what was the point?

******
On the meth topic.
Yes, that is rampant here. Esp in my friends in the gay community. There was a high influx a while back as well, then I saw it die off personally, and now its back.
And I noticed that my drive to work is full of Meth advertising.

Interesting to me, in my circles the persons that have seemingly new addictions are people that have lost faith in their cocktails.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

But, some people LIKE to stew in their shyt. It may be bad, but it is comfortable. And, co-dependent, alcoholic, addict, whatever - you have to get tired of where you are at and be willing to change. No one can help you if you're not willing to accept help.

It sounds like a tired old cliché, but somehow has to make the decision themselves that they want to get better - no can force anyone else into it. Sometimes the best you can do is watch painfully as someone destroys their life. I have watched it (though not with an addiction) and went quite a ways down a self destructive path myself before deciding to make a change (and will probably spend the rest of my life working on that change). But the individual needs to make the choice.

I oft post one of my favorite quotes: "Each day you get better or worse: it's your choice."



(Small clarification: I am NOT saying that one can get better simply by deciding to do so. Sometimes one needs a little help, sometimes a lot. But the decision to WANT to get better must from within.)