1? Meh. 2? Humm, 3? Wait a sec, 4? OK problem... - Page 9

Ghoulish Delight · 02-07-2008, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

And there's a very, very small chance that what the man has done is not invent a perpetual motion machine but rather to have found a way to transfer energy that doesn't require currently known energy inputs. After all, a solar powered toy car would appear a perpetual motion machine if you were unaware of electromagnetic radiation.

But I feel extremely confident saying he hasn't invented a true perpetual motion machine that consumes less energy than it produces.

From the article:

Quote:

D Day. Heins has modified his test so the effects observed are difficult to deny. He holds a permanent magnet a few centimetres away from the driveshaft of an electric motor, and the magnetic field it creates causes the motor to accelerate. It went well.

Errr, isn't that the basic principal of any electromagnetic motor? Not that I need any more reason to be suspect of claims of perpetual motion, but the utter lack of details in this article doesn't help.

Alex · 02-07-2008, 02:55 PM

Plus, the newspaper article is really poorly written, offering no evidence of perpetual motion.

It is well known that magnets can cause motion and acceleration. Even permanent magnets (acceleration is generally done with changing fields requiring a constant input of energy). But that bleeds the magnetism out of the magnet. In other words, there is no mention of measuring the magnetic field of the permanent magnet before and after the demonstration (or if demonstration of energy was sufficient to cause a measurable decrease in the magnetic field if one were happening).

Magnets are a very popular source in supposed perpetual motion machines with lots of overlooked energy inputs and outputs.

If the MIT guy is both qualified and truly uncertain then I'm sure this was all accounted for at the demonstration but not explained in the article.

[ETA: Yeah, GD said it before me]

Moonliner · 02-07-2008, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

From the article:

Errr, isn't that the basic principal of any electromagnetic motor? Not that I need any more reason to be suspect of claims of perpetual motion, but the utter lack of details in this article doesn't help.

Which of course is what makes this story a worthy successor to the Cable cut story. Lot's of drama, not many facts.

mousepod · 02-07-2008, 03:17 PM

There are some interesting links from the thread at the JREF forum.

Ghoulish Delight · 02-07-2008, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mousepod

There are some interesting links from the thread at the JREF forum.

Love this post...

Quote:

Of course, you have to pretend you don't have any degrees or real experience with electronics. This way you can just shrug your shoulders when asked for details on how the device works.

Pirate Bill · 02-07-2008, 03:54 PM

[Homer Simpson]Lisa, in this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics![/Homer]

Moonliner · 02-18-2008, 09:43 PM

Hold it! We're not dead yet....

The Undersea cable cutting might have been the work of nefarious agents yet unnamed.

Personally, I'm still betting on Britney and the paps working together.

02-07-2008, 02:55 PM	#82
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	Plus, the newspaper article is really poorly written, offering no evidence of perpetual motion. It is well known that magnets can cause motion and acceleration. Even permanent magnets (acceleration is generally done with changing fields requiring a constant input of energy). But that bleeds the magnetism out of the magnet. In other words, there is no mention of measuring the magnetic field of the permanent magnet before and after the demonstration (or if demonstration of energy was sufficient to cause a measurable decrease in the magnetic field if one were happening). Magnets are a very popular source in supposed perpetual motion machines with lots of overlooked energy inputs and outputs. If the MIT guy is both qualified and truly uncertain then I'm sure this was all accounted for at the demonstration but not explained in the article. [ETA: Yeah, GD said it before me]
	Submit to Quotes

02-07-2008, 03:17 PM	#84
mousepod You broke your Ramadar! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,635	There are some interesting links from the thread at the JREF forum. __________________ "Give the public everything you can give them, keep the place as clean as you can keep it, keep it friendly" - Walt Disney
	Submit to Quotes

02-07-2008, 03:54 PM	#86
Pirate Bill Quality since 1973 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Right here Posts: 473	[Homer Simpson]Lisa, in this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics![/Homer]
	Submit to Quotes

02-18-2008, 09:43 PM	#87
Moonliner 8/30/14 - Disneyland -10k or Bust. Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 9,022	Hold it! We're not dead yet.... The Undersea cable cutting might have been the work of nefarious agents yet unnamed. Personally, I'm still betting on Britney and the paps working together. __________________ - Taking it one step at a time.
	Submit to Quotes