Lost!

[Cadaverous Pallor]

It goes without saying that I, too, loved this episode.

Ilana speaks Russian. Jacob may have used Latin as a go-between for all the languages and cultures.

I agree with iSm that Ricky's wish to live forever seemed off the cuff and that he should have been smart enough to know better, though GD's interpretation makes sense. They should have presented it as such.



ETA - should have hit refresh before posting...anyway, I think they presented it poorly.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by SzczerbiakManiac

Speaking of that smokin' hot immortal, why was he called Ricardus <sp?> if his original name was Ricardo? Isn't Ricardus the Latin version of Richard? I realize he's Latino, but that's really not the same thing.

Fine. Now I can't stop thinking of him as Ricky Ricardus.

Originally Posted by sleepyjeff

The three wishes were exactly in order and tied in directly with what happened earlier in the episode.

Wish 1...Wants wife back/kills for medicine.

Wish 2...Wants to avoid hell/asks priest to forgive his sins.

Wish 3...Wants to live forever/priest told him he didn't have time to make up for his sins.

Well, he specifically advised he didn't have time because they were hanging him in the morning. The corollary that you must live forever to have the time if a few hours is not enough does not compute and I can't accept such a leap of illogic as a motivation for Ricky Ricardus.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by JWBear

Jacob & Esau come to mind.

Why am I assuming the link will lead to two hot, bearded SIM men?

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Why am I assuming the link will lead to two hot, bearded SIM men?

LOL! No, but it does give me ideas...


BTW... I found this little tidbit interesting:

The translation for "Jacob" in Hebrew is "he who holds by the heels". Jacob lives inside the foot of a statue.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

I loved the Richard backstory and I think the actor did a tremendous job.

I just find a good bit of this Jacob / MIB stuff to be very boring. Unless there is an amazingly clever twist that reveals the world (outside of the Island) is not what it seems, I'm not understanding how keeping MIB trapped on the Island has stopped malevolence and "evil" from spreading. The world that the survivors come from - all of the people Jacob contrives to bring to the Island for the purpose of proving *his* point (which, frankly, makes him an asshole) - is not a Garden of Eden free from sin or pain or injustice, etc. so what exactly is he saving the world from? Is he saying that all mankind is capable of good and evil, it comes down to the choices we make, and MIB would just be too capable of tipping the scales way too far in one direction?

I know the show has always been leading up to an eventual good/evil battle. I guess I find the previous allusions to and hints more interesting than the actual Jacob/MIB characters. Even if they turn out to be the bible's Jacob and Esau, I do like that they play more like the gods in Myths. Lost of the Titans!

At this point, just give me more of Frank the pilot. I love him to pieces.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Eliza Hodgkins 1812

I know the show has always been leading up to an eventual good/evil battle. I guess I find the previous allusions to and hints more interesting than the actual Jacob/MIB characters. Even if they turn out to be the bible's Jacob and Esau, I do like that they play more like the gods in Myths. Lost of the Titans!

I'm running on the assumption that they will continue to be some combination of many different mythologies, Greek, Egyptian, Roman, Biblical. With the implication being that the mythologies are all man's flawed attempts at recording what is "actually" happening. So they will bear resemblance to many different elements of the mythologies (Jacob and Esau, God and Satan, Zeus and Hades, Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum) without being exactly any of them.

Is he saying that all mankind is capable of good and evil, it comes down to the choices we make, and MIB would just be too capable of tipping the scales way too far in one direction?

That seems to be it.

Interestingly, all of the candidates, by the time they got on flight 815, were leading lives that had them essentially hell-bound. So in that sense it could be viewed that Jacob was giving them an opportunity to save themselves.

Of course, it's also been said that Jacob was the one who influenced them to make the choices that lead them there. Which is why I'm guessing that in the flash-sideways storyline we will learn that even without that touch from Jacob, they all would have eventually gone down a path towards hell anyway, they just wouldn't have taken the detour through the island, receiving that opportunity to be saved.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

I'm running on the assumption that they will continue to be some combination of many different mythologies, Greek, Egyptian, Roman, Biblical. With the implication being that the mythologies are all man's flawed attempts at recording what is "actually" happening. So they will bear resemblance to many different elements of the mythologies (Jacob and Esau, God and Satan, Zeus and Hades, Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum) without being exactly any of them.

Assumption shared.

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Interestingly, all of the candidates, by the time they got on flight 815, were leading lives that had them essentially hell-bound. So in that sense it could be viewed that Jacob was giving them an opportunity to save themselves.

Of course, it's also been said that Jacob was the one who influenced them to make the choices that lead them there. Which is why I'm guessing that in the flash-sideways storyline we will learn that even without that touch from Jacob, they all would have eventually gone down a path towards hell anyway, they just wouldn't have taken the detour through the island, receiving that opportunity to be saved.

Yeah, I'm wondering how (given how little time there is left) the alternate timeline will play out, and how all the loose ends will be tied up. Really looking forward to seeing Faraday (at least, I assume we'll see him since we just saw the other two) in the alternate timeline.

It all could be incredibly epic and awesome. I think I'm anxious and will, if I enjoy the rest of the season) need to rewatch everything since the MIB was introduced. I'm a little frustrated that the producers said, pretty early on, that the Island wasn't Limbo. Well, they may not be calling it Limbo, and they only just had their characters consider the possibility of it being Hell, but it seems more and more like the Island is some kind of limbo.

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Well, he specifically advised he didn't have time because they were hanging him in the morning. The corollary that you must live forever to have the time if a few hours is not enough does not compute and I can't accept such a leap of illogic as a motivation for Ricky Ricardus.

With so many more important questions un-answered by this show I am not going to fall into wondering what Richards "real" motivation for living forever is......the answer was given last night(weak though it may have been); that question will not be re-visited so one has to either accept it(and I do) or not accept it.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

It occurred to me that any place that exists outside of earth's usual timeline is by definition in limbo (though perhaps not Limbo) and that those stuck there are for-all-intents-and-purposes dead.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

It occurred to me that any place that exists outside of earth's usual timeline is by definition in limbo (though perhaps not Limbo) and that those stuck there are for-all-intents-and-purposes dead.

I guess I'm perplexed because that was the #1 theory when this show first aired. The "survivors" were actually dead and this was their "Limbo", in which those who proved to be good would be somehow rewarded and those who proved to be bad would be somehow punished.

But then the producers spoke up to basically say, "No, no. Whatever you think, it's not Limbo." I suppose they could argue now that it's still not, though the situation is similar. I don't know. Either that or it obvious to a good many people what the Island was representing, and the writers/producers threw everyone a bone made of red herring.