Sequels to films that never were

[Cadaverous Pallor]

The upcoming Burton's Alice, so far as I've let myself read, involves an older Alice who comes back to Wonderland. (I may be wrong - I'm avoiding spoilers as much as possible.) This in effect makes it a sequel to a film that never was. Yes, there have been plenty of Alice films, but stylistically nothing like Burton's vision.

This brings to mind two movies - Hook and Return to Oz. Also, sequels to non-existent films. For the record, I love both of them.

Are there more?

Superman Returns doesn't really count. The actors channeled their predecessors so well, I think it actually counts as a sequel. Sure, they nuked the fridge a few times, but nothing can touch Superman IV in that department.

The newest Star Trek is an interesting one and can be argued from many angles...though the ideas that win out are that Nimoy is actually in it, and that the "reboot" concept is completely different.

More?

[BarTopDancer]

Not at the moment, only because I am confused as to what would constitute a sequel to a movie that never was.

I always considered Return to Oz a sequel to WOO and Hook a stand alone version of Peter Pan.

Or maybe I need more coffee.

[Alex]

Yeah, I'm a bit fuzzy on the idea here. If I understand correctly it is essentially this:

The creator of a new work chooses to delve into the later exploits of existing characters but completely independent of that original creation. Kind of like if I sat here and wrote the screenplay to Crocodile Dundee IV.

If so, I'd question Return to Oz because while it may be completely separated from The Wizard of Oz as a movie it is still an amalgmation of two of L. Frank Baum's sequel novels.

Hook, I can see. I'm not immediately coming up with another movie but the first thing that comes to are books that do a similar thing in taking a work in the public domain and writing the a sequel. Like the Gone with the Wind sequel written years back. After his death there was a mini cottage industry of other authors writing novels set in Isaac Asimov's Robots/Foundation universe using their own personal style, but those weren't entirely segregated.

[Ghoulish Delight]

The upcoming Burton's Alice, so far as I've let myself read, involves an older Alice who comes back to Wonderland. Oh really? I hope so since, as a general rule of thumb, I find Burton at his best when he's working from original material rather than adapting existing material (Bettlejuice, Nightmare, Mars Attacks, Edward Scissorhands, as opposed to Big Fish, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Planet of the Apes). Batman's an exception to the rule, though even there I prefer Returns which was more of a departure from the comic book world than the first. And Corpse Bride is an exception on the other side (original material that was just kinda meh). But I'll hold out hope that working with a new chapter to the story for Alice has inspired him to greatness once again.

As for the topic in the OP, I might throw the George Clooney Batman films in there. Sort of. I mean, they don't really follow directly from any Batman movie prior to it, and don't start at the beginning of the Batman storyline. But then, in the comic-book world that's hardly any big deal, happens all the time.

I agree with Hook. It definitely presumes a known backstory, yet no version of the backstory that matches what's in that movie ever existed.

[BarTopDancer]

So basically a sequel to a film that never was would be a movie based upon a film with completely different canon?

[Tref]

I always thought the Kaufman remake of Invasion of the Body Snatchers was technically a sequel because it begins where the original ended, with Kevin McCarthy (as Dr. Miles J. Bennell) warning people that, "They're here!"

[Strangler Lewis]

Isn't every film a sequel to a film that was never made? Even a sequel, because one can imagine a totally different prequel focusing on different events in the characters' lives.

[Chernabog]

I can't think of any movies right now, but the video game "Alice" (by American McGee) was a "sequel" to Alice in Wonderland the same way the Burton movie is.

Though I don't think that Burton will present the Queen of Hearts as a giant tentacle monster.

[Kevy Baby]

Kind of like if I sat here and wrote the screenplay to Crocodile Dundee IV.Now that I would like to see!

Though I don't think that Burton will present the Queen of Hearts as a giant tentacle monster.How about a Giant Testicle Monster?

[lashbear]

I can't think of any movies right now, but the video game "Alice" (by American McGee) was a "sequel" to Alice in Wonderland the same way the Burton movie is.

Though I don't think that Burton will present the Queen of Hearts as a giant tentacle monster.
weren't the kids in that skoolhouse creepy ???? *shudder*

[flippyshark]

Does Leonard Part 6 count?

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Does Leonard Part 6 count?NOW you're getting it! ;)


If so, I'd question Return to Oz because while it may be completely separated from The Wizard of Oz as a movie it is still an amalgmation of two of L. Frank Baum's sequel novels.
Yes, but it's a sequel to a film that never was. They touted it as a sequel to the original Wonderful Wizard of Oz but I always found that laughable.

I can't say the concept stretches across an entire genre of film, or is even large enough for a discussion...but I have to admit I'm kind of tickled that I thought of pretty much almost all of them (nice reference, Tref).

It's funny, just saw a Rocketboom on sitcom spinoffs and shows that are "in the same universe", another weird sequel-ish concept.

[€uroMeinke]

Never say Never Again - Sean Connery as an older Bond in a remake of Thunderball?

How about the original Casino Royale - also with an aging Bond coming ut of retirement and predating the true "Bond" films?

Or the original Star Wars?

[Ghoulish Delight]

Oooh, good call on Star Wars. Pick up in the middle of a battle scene, many Bothans already dead.

[BarTopDancer]

The Sum of All Fears was written as a sequel to Clear and Present Danger but the movie takes place somewhere randomly before it. There is no established movie canon where TSoAF fits in yet it's part of the series.

Does that count?

[Alex]

Oooh, good call on Star Wars. Pick up in the middle of a battle scene, many Bothans already dead.

But then isn't every movie that starts in the middle of things or references events that happened prior to the movie but aren't shown a sequel to a movie that never was?

[Cadaverous Pallor]

But then isn't every movie that starts in the middle of things or references events that happened prior to the movie but aren't shown a sequel to a movie that never was?I'd say not really. Usually the basic formula is: status quo, something out of the ordinary happens, characters react, resolution.

As in - Imperial rule, a ragtag band of rebels forms and starts crap, war, resolution. We enter that story in the middle. Which is awesome.

Of course this is from a simplistic view of storytelling, but again, we're talking about movies.

Never say Never Again - Sean Connery as an older Bond in a remake of Thunderball?

How about the original Casino Royale - also with an aging Bond coming ut of retirement and predating the true "Bond" films?The Bond films are definitely part of this weirdness. There are references to the other films sprinkled thinly here and there (particularly in the Moneypenny interactions), but for the most part, they are their own movies. NSNA and the original CR are the oddest ball examples in a standout series that no other film franchise has been able to match.

In the larger category of Sequel Weirdness, Bond gets a place of honor.

[Alex]

Well, if starting in the middle of something qualifies, then Indiana Jones (what adventures/exploits led to that start) and Saving Private Ryan (a lot of unfilmed stuff leading to the landing of LSTs at Norandy) and Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl (all of the unseen/unexplained goings on with Jack Black that got him onto a sinking dinghy).

[mousepod]

I'd also toss in The Return of Captain Invincible and The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across The Eight Dimension.

The former tells the story of a superhero who comes out of retirement (and suggests a long history of the character), while the latter is presented as one in a series of adventures.

[SzczerbiakManiac]

The Return of Captain Invincible...tells the story of a superhero who comes out of retirement...and is a musical with songs by Richard O'Brien who also wrote Rocky Horror.

[Strangler Lewis]

But then isn't every movie that starts in the middle of things or references events that happened prior to the movie but aren't shown a sequel to a movie that never was?

Well said.