What the heck am I supposed to do about it?

[tracilicious]

A few weeks ago we went to the Phoenix Chinese Cultural Center for Chinese New Year. As we pulled up to the center we saw a group of about 15 protesters. What could they possibly be protesting? Chinese people? Chinese food? The year of the dog?

I scrambled to get my camera out to take a pic. As I pulled up next to them I saw that their signs had a picture of a dead and mutilated dog and a cat being skinned. These pictures were very graphic to say the least. The caption said something about cats and dogs being used for fur in China.

A couple of thoughts about this. First, the guy closest to my car should be thanking his lucky charms that my two year old was asleep. Because had he seen that I probably would have tried to make a coat out of protesters. (And there's nothing like teaching violent revenge from an early age, right? ;) )

Secondly, I understand the right to peaceful protest and I fully support it, but do I not have a right not to have my kids exposed to such brutal images without my consent? Those things could never go on a billboard, for example, so why can they flash them around while we are driving in to a parking structure? I should probably add that traffic was very slow, so we were near this guy for almost a full minute. There would have been no escaping Indi seeing this had he been awake.

Third, what's their freaking point? The chinese cultural center basically has some cool asian structures, some restaurants, a garden, some gift type stores, and a grocery store. We were there for a good portion of the day and I saw neither cats nor dogs nor furs. On the off chance I'm ever in China I will be sure not to buy a fur coat. Not that I would have anyways. What do they want from me? Should I have been rude to the Chinese people I saw that day to get back at their culture of origin? What the heck am I supposed to do about it?!

Farking idiots.

[SacTown Chronic]

The Muslim outrage thread had me thinking last night about an abortion protest that took place in Sacramento a year or two ago. Anti-abortion protesters were demonstrating outside a junior high school and were showing pictures of aborted fetuses to the students who were coming and going in front of the school. WTF?

[innerSpaceman]

Maybe they were implying that the Chinese restaurants served cats and dogs as meals. But they would be protesting against the wrong Asians, no?

[tracilicious]

Hmmm...the Chinese food we had there wasn't that good. I imagine that cat would be tastier.

[Not Afraid]

I may not appreciate or even respect what people are saying but I have to, on principle, support their right to express their concerns. They choose just those images for the shock value and I would imagine that they would not be very appologetic to your concern about your shild seeing them. But, yeah, what are you going to do about it?

[tracilicious]

The Muslim outrage thread had me thinking last night about an abortion protest that took place in Sacramento a year or two ago. Anti-abortion protesters were demonstrating outside a junior high school and were showing pictures of aborted fetuses to the students who were coming and going in front of the school. WTF?


Exactly. If you really want to make junior high kids think about abortion, why not hand out flyers about safe sex, resources for teen moms, planned parenthood clinics, the dangers of abortion, etc. The shock value in these sorts of protests only serves to desensitize people. I think they are defeating their own purpose. It's possible that I care less about fur in China now.

[DisneyDaniel]

Perhaps the protestors thought visitors to a Chinese cultural center would be more interested in Chinese affairs than the typical person on a street. But, protesting near a Chinese cultural center that most likely has zero political infuence on China is simply useless.

[Ponine]

Oh Traci, I'm so sorry you dealt with that.
near my home there was a clinic that tended to have pro-life protesters demonstratating all the time. It was a HUGE building with a AAA, a dentist... blah blah... it is/was also the only 'blood draw lab' on my side of town.

When my son was about two, I needed to have blood drawn every month while I was taking this medication.
Most times I got in without incident as they had to stay on the side walk on the street, not in the parking lot.

One day, I have the day off, I have my two year old, and his 7 yr old cousin. I go to drive in, very slowly take a right into the lot...(because I drive like a granny)... some protestor lays his sign flat on my windshield. His very graphic fetus sign.

My niece get so scared , starts to cry.. my son, has no idea whats going on. I roll down the window, Please remove your sign. he throws graphic things into my car, and someone else put their sign in my view. I pull in, I get out.
What are you doing?

We want you to know what you are doing to your unborn child!
My unborn? I'm getting a blood test, and I have two children in the car! One of whom NOW thinks youre about to skin her!
No she doesnt she knows better.
Oh, you think so?
I go to get back in the car.. someone walks up to her window, sign down.. honey we... she screams! Auntie, they're gonna kill me!!!

Did they back off? No. What are we supposed to do?
I'm all for you supporting your opinion, but for pete's sake. THINK.
I did clinic support. I've seen them bully a woman, harrass men going to get dental work done...

But if,imo, your point is to keep the children safe, dont fargin endanger them!

[/soapbox]

[katiesue]

Here in San Diego there's a guy who drives around with very graphic dead fetus images all over his car. Luckily so far I haven't encountered him with my 10 year old in the car with me.

They also tend to park a very large van covered with photos in and around Balboa Park so when you're taking your kids to say the zoo it's impossible not to encounter it.

I agree they have the right to protest but honestly is it stoping anyone from having an abortion? And say just for arguements sake, I'm pro life. I'm already on your side so why do I need to view that? I understant what they're trying to do I'm just not sure it's doing anything besides shocking people, scaring kids and making me loose my lunch.

[Alex]

Secondly, I understand the right to peaceful protest and I fully support it, but do I not have a right not to have my kids exposed to such brutal images without my consent? Those things could never go on a billboard, for example, so why can they flash them around while we are driving in to a parking structure?

On the bold part: no you don't have that right, not in public spaces. And if someone wanted to put those images on a billboard and found a company willing to do so, then it would be allowed (there was a brouhaha in SF a few years back about bus stop ads that showed topless women who had double-mastectomies; the same complaint was made about kids being able to see them).

Second, I find the protests against the specific eating of dogs and cats to be weird. I don't know what makes them so special that they deserve not to be eaten. As long as it wasn't somebody's pet I don't care (and I've had dog; it was ok).

I'm not a big supporter of the fur industry as I tend to think it is a waster of resources and has perfectly acceptbale synthetic alternatives. But if people want it anyway and we're killing animals anyway for various purposes it seems odds to single it out as particularly horrible, and again I don't see any reason for cats and dogs to get special treatment.

[Ponine]

Here in San Diego there's a guy who drives around with very graphic dead fetus images all over his car. Luckily so far I haven't encountered him with my 10 year old in the car with me.

Yes! Him! I am so glad he stopped parking in La Mesa!
I have never been so happy to see a vehicle leave in my life!

[Mousey Girl]

The masectomy picture, I would not have a problem with Nickolas seeing that. He has seen my mom without her shirt on since he was born (no closed doors in The Old People's house). He has even tried on her bra, complete with prosthesis. She had a double done 22 years ago, one side was a modified radical. No biggy, it is just who she is.

My aunt came out from Texas with her, then, 15 yr old daughter. She made a point of asking my mom to make sure that Lauren didn't see her without her boobs on and also told her not to let Lauren see her without a shirt on. My aunt is an OBGYN RN.

I would have a huge problem with the abortionists. I would figure out a way to have them punished for traumatizing my child.

The Chinese Cultural Center protestors need to get a life, maybe find the Chinese Embassy? I remember whn a local Chinese restraraunt had a rumor going around that it got caught serving rat. It was quite a scandal, but I didn't go down there to protest it.

[alphabassettgrrl]

It's one thing to protest but it's crossing a bad line when you harass individuals. The graphic stuff doesn't bother me so much, I'd probably just laugh at them. You want to convince me to switch to your side, give me some compelling logical reasons to do so.

[tracilicious]

I wouldn't care about the mastectomy thing either. I have no problem with human bodies. Even the abortion thing would bother me less because with a younger kid you can just avoid the issue. But mutilated dogs and cats is the stuff that therapy is made of.

I really don't want to be the one to tread on free speech, but I feel like those things are violating our rights. They are vandalizing my kids intellectual property so to speak.

[alphabassettgrrl]

I think the burden is on the person with the sign- there's a limit to good taste, people. Unfortunately, not everybody will do so; and in order to preserve the "good" and "useful" speech, we have to protect the offensive stuff as well. The offensive stuff actually needs more protection which puts me in an odd place of nearly defending it. Either we have free speech or we don't.

I'll put my bets on "do" every time.

[katiesue]

I really don't want to be the one to tread on free speech, but I feel like those things are violating our rights. They are vandalizing my kids intellectual property so to speak.

This is how I feel. I understand they have a right to say it but it's not something I really want my kid to see. Nor do I want to have a conversation attempting to explain it. How do I explain an abortion to a 10 year old? Or cat and dog skinning for that matter (although that ones a little easier).

And don’t I have a right as a parent to explain these things to my child when I think she’s ready to understand them instead of being visibly forced into doing it right now?

[mousepod]

That's a sticky wicket, I'll admit. But the whole "protect the kids" lowest common denominator sends a chill through me.

[innerSpaceman]

Yeah, I gotta agree with that. Might as well close up shop on earth if everything must be what parents deem as child-safe.

Sorry, parents ... but once you step outside your door or let the outside world inside your door, you no longer have the right to dictate that everything be safe for your child ... nor can you reasonably expect to have the adult world conform to your particular standards, or in fact any standards, of child appropriateness.

[Ponine]

Fair enough.
In my case, I dont mind you protesting, or picketing, but dont shove your stuff in my car.

Once I let my son outside, he will hear and see whatever he hears and sees... you're right ISM

[Mousey Girl]

I do understand what you are saying Mousepod and ISM. I must admit I still breathe a sigh of relief when I see something offensive and he isn't with me. If he is with me I have learned to keep my mouth shut unless he says something about it. Most of the times he hasn't noticed or had no idea what he was looking at. The bigger the deal I make of it, the more upset he becomes.

[€uroMeinke]

It's all about getting attention in the media - the more outrageous you are the better chance you'll end up being covered in ther media somewhere where you get a boarder audience for your cause.

"If we only knew the plight of dogs and cats in China..." Of course, you want to do something real for the dog and cat population, adopt a stray, or spay or neuter your own - but who's gonna print that on the nightly news?

[tracilicious]

Yes, don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting a law be passed or anything, but it would be nice if people showed a bit of common sense and respect for others. I agree that it would be a slippery slope as to what's offensive and to whom.

More than anything though, I just want to know what they hoped to accomplish. I'm fairly certain that no one that saw those signs had anything to do with fur in China. Nor does the cultural center. Were they suggesting a ban of all things Chinese until China is more humane to thier animals? Because that's just ridiculous.

I think I'll make my own sign to use the next time I encounter such a situation. It will read: "The people I'm standing with are idiots" on one side and: "I'm wasting my time" on another.

[tracilicious]

It's all about getting attention in the media - the more outrageous you are the better chance you'll end up being covered in ther media somewhere where you get a boarder audience for your cause.

"If we only knew the plight of dogs and cats in China..." Of course, you want to do something real for the dog and cat population, adopt a stray, or spay or neuter your own - but who's gonna print that on the nightly news?

That's a good point.

[Alex]

Never mind. I probably look like I'm arguing for arguments sake and I don't feel like looking that way today.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I think I'll make my own sign to use the next time I encounter such a situation. It will read: "The people I'm standing with are idiots" on one side and: "I'm wasting my time" on another.Just make signs with pictures of children crying in terror and show it to their kids.

[tracilicious]

Never mind. I probably look like I'm arguing for arguments sake and I don't feel like looking that way today.


No, I think your original point was a good one, but not quite what I was refering to. I'm assuming that you were talking about actual trade embargos and such, which do work. What I was talking about was not ordering Chinese food, and going to Chinese New Year celebrations and the like, which seems pretty pointless to me as those things don't affect the actual country of China.

As for the eating dogs and cats, I guess I agree. I would want for them what I want for all animals though, which is to be treated in a humane manner regardless of their fate. I think that we tend to assume that cats and dogs are smarter and so they shouldn't be eaten. Pigs are smarter than cats or dogs though and we eat them all the time. I've heard that pigs are actually as smart as dolphins.

[tracilicious]

Just make signs with pictures of children crying in terror and show it to their kids.

Heh. That would be a good response to the "Your mommy kills little animals" campaign that PETA had for a while. It would be the "Your mommy made my kids cry" campaign.

[alphabassettgrrl]

I do understand what you are saying Mousepod and ISM. I must admit I still breathe a sigh of relief when I see something offensive and he isn't with me. If he is with me I have learned to keep my mouth shut unless he says something about it. Most of the times he hasn't noticed or had no idea what he was looking at. The bigger the deal I make of it, the more upset he becomes.
Sounds about right. From the outside, it seems that a lot of things that adults think children should be upset about- they haven't even noticed. I think you're on the right track- if the little guy doesn't say anything about it, let it go.