The DR is in

[Tramspotter]

So I Watched 60 Minutes Sunday, not out of a desire to (but because my grandfather had the remote) I got quite a chuckle watching a piece about a lobbyist who was dubbed Dr. Evil (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/05/60minutes/main2653020.shtml)

This guy is walking Kryptonite to public ~~~insert issue/cause here~~~ Advocates.

But he not only lobbies but makes great counter propaganda, populist, zinger style adds, helping out various issue specific nonprofits. It warms the sub cockles to think there are still un-cowerd souls out there fighting against Nanny-state incrementalism. And making ridiculously filthy lucre from varied besieged business interests in doing so. :snap:

[Cadaverous Pallor]

He's still a <gagging noise> lobbyist, pretty much the most detestable career one can choose in a republic, IMHO.

[Morrigoon]

Doesn't lobbyist rank somewhere between telemarketer and insurance salesman on the "most hated careers" list?

Oh crap... I've had one of those jobs and my current job could technically be considered the other... maybe I've missed my calling as a lobbyist?

...Nah, I still have a soul.

[Alex]

We all hate lobbyists and think it should be severely limited. Right up until we have a personal pet issue where we think effort should be made to inform the opinion of Congress.

[Tramspotter]

He's still a <gagging noise> lobbyist, pretty much the most detestable career one can choose in a republic, IMHO.

No you still have Meter-maid, IRS Agent, and run of the mill ambulance chasing attorneys among other leaches on society.

Also in another post I specifically recall you saying something to the effect of: I try not to judge a person based on profession.

And in closing did you click on any of the adds he made?

[Cadaverous Pallor]

No you still have Meter-maid, IRS Agent, and run of the mill ambulance chasing attorneys among other leaches on society. Meter Maids and IRS agents are messengers, whom I don't shoot. I'll totally agree there are plenty of evil attorneys in certain aspects of the profession, though those I'd judge person by person, which leads us to your next statement -

Also in another post I specifically recall you saying something to the effect of: I try not to judge a person based on profession. Yup. In the case of <ucchhhh> lobbyists, I think the profession itself is a detriment to our governance and should be eliminated, no matter what Alex says.

And in closing did you click on any of the adds he made?No - I'm not a fan of advertising created to sway minds on political ideals, never mind one created by a <huuuuaakkk> lobbyist. "Hey, catchy jingle, nice graphics - I think I'll vote yes on that measure!"

[Alex]

But how do you make it illegal to tell government what you think should be done? I swing in the opposite direction; I'll agree that many lobbyists are skeevy but the industry should be unregulated

[innerSpaceman]

Um, we have this thing called email now. Professional lobbying should be illegal. Constituants can communicate with their representatives pretty easily nowadays.

[blueerica]

Ahh, but if I were a politician, I'd have the lobby email all filtered to spam. And if you think about it, friends and those who they think are "friends" could become lobbyists of one sort or another. If I were Big <Insert Industry>, I'd just start recruiting those, or planting people in their life - if I was being THAT sneaky. Forcing such an activity to go underground could, IMO, make it a worse problem than it is. At least lobbyists are fairly up front about what they do. The convenient "next door neighbor" might not be.

[Alex]

It isn't really any easier to communicate now with a senator than it was before, you just save the cost of a stamp.

What would define a "professional" lobbyist? If I had a business saying "Hey! Most of you suck as writing letters to your Congressman. So before you send that email forward it to me and for $2 I'll give it a polish that is sure to get it noticed!"

What about "Hey, I'm a wheat farmer and I have real concerns about HB2323 which will raise my harvesting costs significantly. So I'm going go visit our senator in Washington and laid out how I feel. Since we can't all afford to take four days to go to Washington, anybody interested in signing this letter letting him know how many of us share my concerns?"

How about "We're in the middle of our harvest so I can't get to Washington but it so happens that Larry, my accountant, will be there and he's willing to drop a letter off personally at the senator's office. Anybody want to sign it with me?"

How about "You know, we've had Larry present five letters from us to the senator in the last year and it's really eating into his other responsibilies. Why don't we just pay Larry to live in an SRO in Washington to make sure the senator remembers we're out here and we're really concerned about these bills?"

At what point do you say some level of cooperation and organization in trying to sway political opinion is no longer acceptable? Is there a bright line that is easy to enforce? Paying a guy to talk about the pork industry to a congressman at every opportunity is different how from being a professional "radical" organizing anti-war protests at every appearance by
the same congressman. Both of them are lobbying and both of them are doing it as their primary livelihood (even if one is much better paid than the other).

Is it legal to be paid to speak to all of Congress (Rush Limbaugh) but not a single congressman (the AARP lobbyist)?

Certain methods of lobbying should be against the law since they are essentially bribery or blackmail but at root, lobbying is just talking.

[Tramspotter]

Messangers smessengers.

How dare they come here to my street and disrespect my car! or my houseguests this is SPARTA!!!!!! (If only there was a pothhole deap enough that I could kick that bitch into)

You guys are completely right to dismiss this guy based on his vocation point of view and his call to action media and political messages.

However unlike most of his kind, his motivations, and funding are unapologeticaly hangging out there, like a pair of hairy boys (http://www.devilducky.com/media/57614/) for all to judge.... of course theres no point to his media message (http://www.digg.com/videos/people/If_You_Hate_The_Food_Police_You_Will_Love_This_Ad_ Video) at all. How could there be?

[Not Afraid]

You guys are completely right to dismiss this guy based on his vocation point of view and his call to action media and political messages.



I don't dismiss him based on vocation, I dismiss him based on promotion of rhetoric. He's an attention whore that doesn't deserve attention (hence the whore part).

[Alex]

So are sexual whores only whores if they don't deserve sex?

[Not Afraid]

So are sexual whores only whores if they don't deserve sex?

I guess if you use my fuzzy logic, that would be the case. ;)

[Tramspotter]

I don't dismiss him based on vocation, I dismiss him based on promotion of rhetoric.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a4/Aristoteles_Louvre.jpg/200px-Aristoteles_Louvre.jpg

[Alex]

He too was a major asshole.

[Not Afraid]

Sometimes as asshole is just an asshole.

[Kevy Baby]

He too was a major asshole.So was Jim Jackman

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I'll readily admit that some of this thread is flying right over my head (Aristotle? Jim Jackman?) but as usual I don't care enough about a Daily Grind thread to actually look things up.

Certain methods of lobbying should be against the law since they are essentially bribery or blackmail but at root, lobbying is just talking.I'd guarantee you my immortal soul if you can bring me a person employed as a <erk> lobbyist who does not give "gifts" to representatives.

Any "gift", no matter how small or incidental, completely negates the concept of equal representation for all, no matter how the rep ends up voting. This is my solid stance on the profession.

If lobbying actually was "just talking", I'd have no problem with it.

Messangers smessengers.

How dare they come here to my street and disrespect my car! or my houseguests this is SPARTA!!!!!! (If only there was a pothhole deap enough that I could kick that bitch into)Yet again, I have no idea if you're completely joking or half-serious or WTF. It would be nice if I did.

You guys are completely right to dismiss this guy based on his vocation point of view and his call to action media and political messages. It would also be nice if you actually replied to my assertions instead of simply restating things in a sarcastic manner. Please reread my previous post and respond to the concepts therein if you wish to discuss it.

[sleepyjeff]

I'll readily admit that some of this thread is flying right over my head (Aristotle? Jim Jackman?)




Me too....not just this thread either. All of the Daily Grind has been flying over my head for the last couple of days:blush:

[Alex]

I know 13 people employed as lobbyists (Government Relations) at work (). If they're doing anything that isn't available to me or you (though certainly in a much more dedicated fashion) then they hide it well.

Yes, there are bad lobbyists (though not possible without bad politicians) but in my experience they are not even close to the majority. But even if they were, there are so many lobbyists with such conflicting goals, unless the politician in question was already sympathetic to one view or another they'd probably just end up cancelling each other out.

Again though, if the entire profession should be barred, how do you draw the line to do so?

[innerSpaceman]

$

[Alex]

Money where?

[Kevy Baby]

I'll readily admit that some of this thread is flying right over my head (Aristotle? Jim Jackman?) but as usual I don't care enough about a Daily Grind thread to actually look things up.

Me too....not just this thread either. All of the Daily Grind has been flying over my head for the last couple of days:blush:Yeah; the Jim Jackman post was a serious leap (I had to look it up to post it!). To explain, I will begin with the trigger post:

He too was a major asshole.In case there is anyone who wants to try to figure it out on their own, I will spoiler it. My hint is that it has NOTHING to do with politics, philosphy, or anything remotely serious.

Jim Jackman was the actor who played the character Major Asshole in Spaceballs (http://imdb.com/title/tt0094012/)