The DR is in

Tramspotter · 04-10-2007, 08:28 PM

So I Watched 60 Minutes Sunday, not out of a desire to (but because my grandfather had the remote) I got quite a chuckle watching a piece about a lobbyist who was dubbed Dr. Evil

This guy is walking Kryptonite to public ~~~insert issue/cause here~~~ Advocates.

But he not only lobbies but makes great counter propaganda, populist, zinger style adds, helping out various issue specific nonprofits. It warms the sub cockles to think there are still un-cowerd souls out there fighting against Nanny-state incrementalism. And making ridiculously filthy lucre from varied besieged business interests in doing so.

Cadaverous Pallor · 04-10-2007, 08:45 PM

He's still a <gagging noise> lobbyist, pretty much the most detestable career one can choose in a republic, IMHO.

Tramspotter · 04-11-2007, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

He's still a <gagging noise> lobbyist, pretty much the most detestable career one can choose in a republic, IMHO.

No you still have Meter-maid, IRS Agent, and run of the mill ambulance chasing attorneys among other leaches on society.

Also in another post I specifically recall you saying something to the effect of: I try not to judge a person based on profession.

And in closing did you click on any of the adds he made?

Cadaverous Pallor · 04-11-2007, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tramspotter

No you still have Meter-maid, IRS Agent, and run of the mill ambulance chasing attorneys among other leaches on society.

Meter Maids and IRS agents are messengers, whom I don't shoot. I'll totally agree there are plenty of evil attorneys in certain aspects of the profession, though those I'd judge person by person, which leads us to your next statement -

Quote:

Also in another post I specifically recall you saying something to the effect of: I try not to judge a person based on profession.

Yup. In the case of <ucchhhh> lobbyists, I think the profession itself is a detriment to our governance and should be eliminated, no matter what Alex says.

Quote:

And in closing did you click on any of the adds he made?

No - I'm not a fan of advertising created to sway minds on political ideals, never mind one created by a <huuuuaakkk> lobbyist. "Hey, catchy jingle, nice graphics - I think I'll vote yes on that measure!"

Alex · 04-11-2007, 07:31 AM

But how do you make it illegal to tell government what you think should be done? I swing in the opposite direction; I'll agree that many lobbyists are skeevy but the industry should be unregulated

Morrigoon · 04-10-2007, 11:50 PM

Doesn't lobbyist rank somewhere between telemarketer and insurance salesman on the "most hated careers" list?

Oh crap... I've had one of those jobs and my current job could technically be considered the other... maybe I've missed my calling as a lobbyist?

...Nah, I still have a soul.

Alex · 04-11-2007, 06:56 AM

We all hate lobbyists and think it should be severely limited. Right up until we have a personal pet issue where we think effort should be made to inform the opinion of Congress.

innerSpaceman · 04-11-2007, 08:09 AM

Um, we have this thing called email now. Professional lobbying should be illegal. Constituants can communicate with their representatives pretty easily nowadays.

blueerica · 04-11-2007, 08:16 AM

Ahh, but if I were a politician, I'd have the lobby email all filtered to spam. And if you think about it, friends and those who they think are "friends" could become lobbyists of one sort or another. If I were Big <Insert Industry>, I'd just start recruiting those, or planting people in their life - if I was being THAT sneaky. Forcing such an activity to go underground could, IMO, make it a worse problem than it is. At least lobbyists are fairly up front about what they do. The convenient "next door neighbor" might not be.

Alex · 04-11-2007, 09:08 AM

It isn't really any easier to communicate now with a senator than it was before, you just save the cost of a stamp.

What would define a "professional" lobbyist? If I had a business saying "Hey! Most of you suck as writing letters to your Congressman. So before you send that email forward it to me and for $2 I'll give it a polish that is sure to get it noticed!"

What about "Hey, I'm a wheat farmer and I have real concerns about HB2323 which will raise my harvesting costs significantly. So I'm going go visit our senator in Washington and laid out how I feel. Since we can't all afford to take four days to go to Washington, anybody interested in signing this letter letting him know how many of us share my concerns?"

How about "We're in the middle of our harvest so I can't get to Washington but it so happens that Larry, my accountant, will be there and he's willing to drop a letter off personally at the senator's office. Anybody want to sign it with me?"

How about "You know, we've had Larry present five letters from us to the senator in the last year and it's really eating into his other responsibilies. Why don't we just pay Larry to live in an SRO in Washington to make sure the senator remembers we're out here and we're really concerned about these bills?"

At what point do you say some level of cooperation and organization in trying to sway political opinion is no longer acceptable? Is there a bright line that is easy to enforce? Paying a guy to talk about the pork industry to a congressman at every opportunity is different how from being a professional "radical" organizing anti-war protests at every appearance by
the same congressman. Both of them are lobbying and both of them are doing it as their primary livelihood (even if one is much better paid than the other).

Is it legal to be paid to speak to all of Congress (Rush Limbaugh) but not a single congressman (the AARP lobbyist)?

Certain methods of lobbying should be against the law since they are essentially bribery or blackmail but at root, lobbying is just talking.

04-10-2007, 08:28 PM	#1
Tramspotter Show me on the bear. Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: LA Posts: 445	The DR is in So I Watched 60 Minutes Sunday, not out of a desire to (but because my grandfather had the remote) I got quite a chuckle watching a piece about a lobbyist who was dubbed Dr. Evil This guy is walking Kryptonite to public ~~~insert issue/cause here~~~ Advocates. But he not only lobbies but makes great counter propaganda, populist, zinger style adds, helping out various issue specific nonprofits. It warms the sub cockles to think there are still un-cowerd souls out there fighting against Nanny-state incrementalism. And making ridiculously filthy lucre from varied besieged business interests in doing so.
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04-10-2007, 08:45 PM	#2
Cadaverous Pallor ohhhh baby Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Parental Bliss Posts: 12,364	He's still a <gagging noise> lobbyist, pretty much the most detestable career one can choose in a republic, IMHO. __________________ The second star to the right shines in the night for you
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04-11-2007, 07:31 AM	#5
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	But how do you make it illegal to tell government what you think should be done? I swing in the opposite direction; I'll agree that many lobbyists are skeevy but the industry should be unregulated
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04-10-2007, 11:50 PM	#6
Morrigoon I throw stones at houses Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Location: Location Posts: 9,534	Doesn't lobbyist rank somewhere between telemarketer and insurance salesman on the "most hated careers" list? Oh crap... I've had one of those jobs and my current job could technically be considered the other... maybe I've missed my calling as a lobbyist? ...Nah, I still have a soul. __________________ http://bash.org/?top "It is useless for sheep to pass a resolution in favor of vegetarianism while wolves remain of a different opinion." -- William Randolph Inge
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04-11-2007, 06:56 AM	#7
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	We all hate lobbyists and think it should be severely limited. Right up until we have a personal pet issue where we think effort should be made to inform the opinion of Congress.
	Submit to Quotes

04-11-2007, 08:09 AM	#8
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	Um, we have this thing called email now. Professional lobbying should be illegal. Constituants can communicate with their representatives pretty easily nowadays.
	Submit to Quotes

04-11-2007, 08:16 AM	#9
blueerica Nueve Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,497	Ahh, but if I were a politician, I'd have the lobby email all filtered to spam. And if you think about it, friends and those who they think are "friends" could become lobbyists of one sort or another. If I were Big <Insert Industry>, I'd just start recruiting those, or planting people in their life - if I was being THAT sneaky. Forcing such an activity to go underground could, IMO, make it a worse problem than it is. At least lobbyists are fairly up front about what they do. The convenient "next door neighbor" might not be. __________________ Tomorrow is the day for you and me
	Submit to Quotes

04-11-2007, 09:08 AM	#10
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	It isn't really any easier to communicate now with a senator than it was before, you just save the cost of a stamp. What would define a "professional" lobbyist? If I had a business saying "Hey! Most of you suck as writing letters to your Congressman. So before you send that email forward it to me and for $2 I'll give it a polish that is sure to get it noticed!" What about "Hey, I'm a wheat farmer and I have real concerns about HB2323 which will raise my harvesting costs significantly. So I'm going go visit our senator in Washington and laid out how I feel. Since we can't all afford to take four days to go to Washington, anybody interested in signing this letter letting him know how many of us share my concerns?" How about "We're in the middle of our harvest so I can't get to Washington but it so happens that Larry, my accountant, will be there and he's willing to drop a letter off personally at the senator's office. Anybody want to sign it with me?" How about "You know, we've had Larry present five letters from us to the senator in the last year and it's really eating into his other responsibilies. Why don't we just pay Larry to live in an SRO in Washington to make sure the senator remembers we're out here and we're really concerned about these bills?" At what point do you say some level of cooperation and organization in trying to sway political opinion is no longer acceptable? Is there a bright line that is easy to enforce? Paying a guy to talk about the pork industry to a congressman at every opportunity is different how from being a professional "radical" organizing anti-war protests at every appearance by the same congressman. Both of them are lobbying and both of them are doing it as their primary livelihood (even if one is much better paid than the other). Is it legal to be paid to speak to all of Congress (Rush Limbaugh) but not a single congressman (the AARP lobbyist)? Certain methods of lobbying should be against the law since they are essentially bribery or blackmail but at root, lobbying is just talking.
	Submit to Quotes