Seventeen Children

[3894]

Read all about it (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070803/ap_on_fe_st/17_kids)

Besides the fact that the planet is already overpopulated, I can't decide what's the most upsetting part of this story -
the way they dress those girls
or
that the dad's name is really and truly Jim Bob

[BarTopDancer]

Or that they have enough land for each child to build their home[stead] there (own personal cult anyone?)

[DreadPirateRoberts]

wow! That mom is like a queen bee. I would imagine that at some point you hit critical mass, and you have enough kids that are old enough to actually help do things like change diapers, etc.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I think there's some sort of law that if you have over 7 kids one has to be named Jedediah.

Anyway - good on them! Have as many as you can handle. :) Overpopulation isn't something they've got a problem with in Arkansas...

[Stan4dSteph]

I saw a program on Discovery Channel that featured them. It's a bit disturbing to me. The seem a bit insulated. Do they really meet many people not like themselves? Also, the career aspirations of the girls seem to fit the role of woman as subservient, which tends to make me a little irritated.

No comment on her hair (http://health.discovery.com/convergence/duggars/gallery/duggarfacts_1.jpg)?

[Not Afraid]

GAH! My worst nightmare.

[BarTopDancer]

wow! That mom is like a queen bee. I would imagine that at some point you hit critical mass, and you have enough kids that are old enough to actually help do things like change diapers, etc.

The older kids girls are all assigned a younger sibling to take care of raise.

I saw some of that documentary. It is quite disturbing - the amount of isolation they have. Home school, home church and unlike the Amish I doubt they get to go out and decide for themselves if they would prefer to not live in such an environment.

[3894]

No comment on her hair (http://health.discovery.com/convergence/duggars/gallery/duggarfacts_1.jpg)?

Honey, that woman needs to atone for that sin masquerading as a hairdo. And while we're on the subject, I'm guessing that family has access to deadstock for their wardrobe. Where else could you find a jumper and blouse with peter pan collar in 2007?

[Snowflake]

Among the "fun facts" listed on Discovery Health's Web page devoted to the Duggars: A baby has been born in every month except June; the Duggars have gone through an estimated 90,000 diapers, and Michelle, 40, has been pregnant for 126 months — or 10.5 years — of her life.

Yikes.

I'm happy for them, this is their life. But, their life is not for me.

[Capt Jack]

I wish I could think of something besides a negative here, but 17 kids?

this to me seems ridiculous

[Morrigoon]

My first thought was OMG... is that a Duggar girl wearing *gasp* PANTS?

[katiesue]

I've watched a couple of the shows about them. They all seems so happy and even keeled all the time, like they're robots or something. It's very creepy.

My favorite Discovery Channel multiple kid family are Jon & Kate plus 8. They fight, make snarky comments and just try and get through the day without going bonkers. A little less freaky than the Duggars.

[AllyOops!]

I'm just glad Mom & Dad's lifetime career of choice isn't state welfare. :(

I read about the Duggar family in People magazine a few weeks ago. They seem like a very loving and close knit clan. God bless them. :)

I'm trying to recall all of their names. I love the name Jill. And Justin. And Joseph. But...Jinger? Like "finger"? Or is the "g" silent like "singer"? I've never heard of the name "Jinger"! Isn't that the name of the lead horse on the King Arthur Carousel at Disneyland?? You know, the pony painted gold for the 50th Anniversary?

Wait, I remember. The Merry-Go-'Round horse is named Jingles. Should they choose to have another child, they should name he or she Jingles.

It sounds almost naughty. "My Jinger got caught in the door!" Or, "my Jinger got stuck in my zipper again". :(

[Morrigoon]

Actually, it's like Ginger... apparently they hadn't thought of Jennifer yet :rolleyes: so they got creative.

[Capt Jack]

"my Jinger got stuck in my zipper again". :(

if they had, they'd only have 16 kids

[alphabassettgrrl]

Frightens me. All of it.

[Chernabog]

It reminds me of that line from the play The Women (it was cut out of the movie version):

(Woman announces to another woman that Ms. Potter is going to have her 9th child)

Womans reaction: "Nine children! Nine children? What is she darling, careless or Catholic?" ;)

I suppose that as long as they had enough money to care for all those kids it would be okay, but there is a point at which it isn't fair for the kids to have to literally mother and father their younger siblings every single day because the parents simply cannot do it.

[Gemini Cricket]

Someone should teach that lady how to cross her legs.
:D

[3894]

Someone should teach that lady how to cross her legs.
:D

Someone should teach that man to keep his pants zipped.

[Gemini Cricket]

Someone should teach that man to keep his pants zipped.
That, too.
Or his fly buttoned as the case may be.
:D

[Babette]

I saw the Discovery Channel program on this family a while back. It really bothered me on so many levels. The girls are thrown into a caregiver/mother role being responsible for their siblings. They are homeschooled so they never socialize with people of other backgrounds and lifestyles. They make those clothes, then hand them down! That woman is constantly pregnant. The hair! Ugh, so many things wrong IMO.

I have to agree with Snowflake. It is their life, but definitely not for me. I do have a big problem with this lifestyle if the family does not support itself. They get donations, aid and other benefits for choosing to have too many children. Then society ends up paying for their children and that is not right. I am not sure about Jim Bob's finances, but they do have a gorgeous home they just custom built.

[3894]

That, too.
Or his fly buttoned as the case may be.

By my calculations Jim Bob's do-ability factor is -73 on a scale of 1 to 10.

[sleepyjeff]

Besides the fact that the planet is already overpopulated.....


Not really...


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9B03E0DF1730F931A35752C1A961958260

If this trend continues it could have far-reaching consequences, demographers say. When more and more of the world's most highly industrialized and economically productive nations do not replenish their numbers, their role as engines of global growth -- both as producers and consumers of goods -- is thrown into doubt.

''These developed countries have a particularly important role because they provide a great deal of the economic leadership and social leadership,'' said Joseph Chamie, director of the United Nations population division, which organized the conference this week.

''They are, basically, the producer nations, the consumer nations and the donor nations,'' he said. ''China today is exporting to whom? Basically to the United States and Europe, and that's helping the Chinese economy. Europe alone consumes a great deal and produces a great deal. If they start shrinking there will be a readjustment, and it will be global in its impact. It will affect the entire world economy.''

[Cadaverous Pallor]

The girls are thrown into a caregiver/mother role being responsible for their siblings. Thing is, that's the way most families used to be. That's the only way a family with more 5 kids can function, and most families used to have that many. Two people simply cannot mother or father that many children. There were four in my family and I was changing diapers, feeding, burping, teaching, entertaining, as much as any 11 year old could. I enjoyed some of it, was annoyed at some of it.

I think that the experience of helping to take care of a baby sibling is very beneficial to future parents. That isn't to say only children would make terrible parents, but any experience helps.

Still, 17, crazy. :)

[AllyOops!]

Actually, it's like Ginger... apparently they hadn't thought of Jennifer yet :rolleyes: so they got creative.

Oh!!! Thank you!! I was just on the phone with my boyfriend. "I was like, "Babe, who names their child Jinger (I pronounced it like "finger")?"

I'm smacking my forehead, feeling like the village dolt!

Wait, maybe I'm not. I've never seen Ginger spelled with a "J"! "Jinger"?!?!? It's too much like "finger"!! From now on, Ally will be spelled Aleigh. Or Allea. ;)

They'll have to abandon the whole "J" concept eventually if they plan to have more children. Or maybe not. Welcome, baby Jar-Jar! Or baby Jabba. Or baby Janga. All six Star Wars films offer them limitless possibilities.

[Babette]

Thing is, that's the way most families used to be. That's the only way a family with more 5 kids can function, and most families used to have that many. Two people simply cannot mother or father that many children. There were four in my family and I was changing diapers, feeding, burping, teaching, entertaining, as much as any 11 year old could. I enjoyed some of it, was annoyed at some of it.

I think that the experience of helping to take care of a baby sibling is very beneficial to future parents. That isn't to say only children would make terrible parents, but any experience helps.

Still, 17, crazy. :) Oh, yes, I helped take care of my little brother, but I was not assigned to him full time. I had time to socialize with people outside my family. I was able to experience other teenage girl things, and help my parents/brother. I had choices (most of the time).

[katiesue]

It's not for me, but then neither are a lot of other lifestyle choices. As far as I can tell from the tv shows Jim Bob supports the family so as long as that keeps up whatever floats your boat. Yes it's a bit odd and I'm sure some of them will rebel big time as they get older but they're not burdening anyone else.

[Stan4dSteph]

SFGate article from 2005 when there were only 16 (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2005/10/19/notes101905.DTL)

Note to Michelle Duggar: If God wanted you to have a massive pile of children, she'd have given your uterus a hydraulic pump and a revolving door. Stop it now.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Oh, yes, I helped take care of my little brother, but I was not assigned to him full time. I had time to socialize with people outside my family. I was able to experience other teenage girl things, and help my parents/brother. I had choices (most of the time).True that, for me as well.

SFGate article from 2005 when there were only 16 (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2005/10/19/notes101905.DTL)Wow, what a hate filled article, from someone who probably is pro-choice and yet feels they have a right to dictate what that woman does with her body. :rolleyes:

To be honest, I think all this knee-jerk judgementalism stinks, from the smallest slights to that abhorrent article. So, she wants to be pregnant over and over, so, they're religious, so, they home school, so, what? It's their lives, and as long as the kids are polite, clean, well fed, and don't start a cult, why should anyone judge them, lest ye be judged, eh?

[katiesue]

To be honest, I think all this knee-jerk judgementalism stinks, from the smallest slights to that abhorrent article. So, she wants to be pregnant over and over, so, they're religious, so, they home school, so, what? It's their lives, and as long as the kids are polite, clean, well fed, and don't start a cult, why should anyone judge them, lest ye be judged, eh?


Exactly. Like I said it's not for me. But as far as I can tell they're taking care of themselves. And one of their TV shows showed them going to some sort of homeschooling convention so there was social ineraction with kids their own ages (of course with the same beliefs) so they're not living in some sort of concentration camp.

I can't imagine what having 17 children does to ones body. I know it's why women used to die young they'd just finally give out.

[scaeagles]

I agree CP. Wholeheartedly. I don't even have anything to add.

Except that three often times seems like way too many to me.:)

[katiesue]

My best friend is raising 6. Two are hers and she's also raising her four nieces and nephews. It's total chaos all the time. But it is an organized chaos. Sure a couple of them have been left at soccer pratice here and there but she hasn't totally lost one yet.

With 17 you'd have to have a lot of discpline and scheduling or it would just be complete madness.

[Gemini Cricket]

I think it's human nature to be in disagreement with the couple about their choice to have a ton of kids. As much as it is their freedom to have them, I have the freedom to say they're freaks.

[MouseWife]

I come from a very big family, 9. Catholic and careless?

I would say that it was too much. I think that my parents also had the sentiment that all we needed was one another but that wasn't really right. I don't think it was entirely healthy. I think they did it to keep control over us and keep us out of trouble. A good plan? Maybe.

I have three kids. I have tried to make sure that I don't get so involved with one of them that the others get left behind.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I think it's human nature to be in disagreement with the couple about their choice to have a ton of kids. As much as it is their freedom to have them, I have the freedom to say they're freaks.Totally. I personally think they're "crazy", by which I mean that "if I did it myself I'd go crazy", or "I'd have to go crazy to make that decision". However, seeing the tiny bit I have seen of their lives, it seems to make sense for them, and that's cool. I know some people would go crazy living my life, for various reasons.

That article really went over the edge...such ugliness.

[blueerica]

Lotsa mojo for CP on this one. I didn't write on it earlier, because I needed to reserve my brain cells for a paper I'm writing.

But, all I kept thinking is that as long as no one is being abused, then there's just not much we can say or do about it. Personally, it's nothing I would choose for myself but that's only given my experiences. I can't put myself in their shoes, because all that's doing is putting myself into a situation in which I, product of my experiences, would be unhappy. While I haven't seen any documentaries or read any other articles than the one linked at the top, I'd loathe myself to be judgmental to someone's else's life decision that seems to bring no harm. I'd be just as bad (my opinion) as those who believe that being homosexual is wrong.

It all boils down to being a matter of opinion, and mine is to be in a constant state of flux and to have a belief that I cannot know and therefore cannot judge.

The older children who appear to be "stuck watching the younger ones" will get their experiences, as well as the younger ones. Maybe not as soon as many of us did, but inevitably they will, living in the U.S. They're only 17, after all - there's still a lot of time left for them on this planet.

[Stan4dSteph]

The girls are being taught that their place in life is to be a wife and make babies, not much else. I have a problem with that.

[3894]

But, all I kept thinking is that as long as no one is being abused, then there's just not much we can say or do about it. <snip!>
It all boils down to being a matter of opinion, and mine is to be in a constant state of flux and to have a belief that I cannot know and therefore cannot judge.

I disagree. We are free to speak our minds, just as the family is free to practice their oddball, insular version of Christianity.

[blueerica]

You disagree, as in it's not a matter of opinion? I should have rephrased my first statement to say that there's not much I can say or do about it. We was more of a slip-up.

I think we actually quite agree, in that I do feel we are free to speak our minds. I was simply giving my reasons why I don't feel I can judge them any more than I can judge anyone not living my brand of lifestyle.

And certainly, I cannot presume that the young women are unhappy.

[lashbear]

the Duggars have gone through an estimated 90,000 diapers

Holy Landfill !! I'm glad they didn't use environmentally friendly cloth nappies, that they could re-use on each new batch of babies ! :rolleyes:

[Morrigoon]

re: the "as long as they don't start a cult" remark... what have you read/seen about their religious life? Because they basically hold services in their home with about 2 other over-reproducing families and the girls are (or at least were?) not allowed to wear pants, only dresses, and they claimed it was a religious thing...

And then there's the whole "one closet for the whole family" thing...

[Not Afraid]

When I first saw Yours, Mine & Ours I never thought "that's what I want to do when I grow up". I'm way too selfish and enjoy my life too much. That's the choice I made. My SIL had 6 and I thought that was too many. To each his own. I doubt they are going to change the world one child at a time.

[MouseWife]

We were six {the other three were older and out of the house} and we made a parade marching around Disneyland.

I only have three kids and I often catch myself saying 'Dang, can you believe how many kids they have?' about a family of 4....in front of my sis & friend with 4 kids.

I think they can do it because they control everything. My friend with 4 kids, they go to school and church, all of the outside {i.e. 'normal'} activies are a lot to deal with.

And, at my age, I know women who want more kids. I do not. I love babies and I miss them but I will enjoy them when then are in my life...from someone else. The urge isn't so great to make me do something rash. :eek:

I do keep asking my daughter to bring her friend over with the little one...