Body Image...

[blueerica]

And I'm totally serious...

I was super-close to posting it on my LJ where only a few eyes could see it, but I decided to grow a pair of balls (no... not really, but yeah, figuratively) and post it here.

Tonight I caught How To Look Good Naked. Watching the show tonight sort of opened up, for me, the thought that so many women have such negative self images. I know I'm no supermodel, but I don't even see myself in the way these women do - and the women they had on, in a great many areas, in better shape than I am. And yet, they were crying. They were despondent. They were depressed. At least I didn't feel that way about myself, right?

The show was fantastic, but primarily for women. I thought it was great, and by watching it, I felt better about myself (go figure...). Even € had something to say on body image as of late.... So, maybe it's something we need to talk about. Or maybe it's something I need to talk about.

While there's a part of me that thinks, Oh, the women I'm friends with have high self esteem, and I don't know anyone like this.... I realize that I'm probably wrong. I have so many of my own self-doubts, and not all of them physical. Yet, I know that my mental self-doubts manifest themselves into thinking about how I should cut calories (I probably should... Just allow me my bacon!), and how I should be doing X, Y and Z exercise.

While I'm nowhere near crying about it, I look like a rectangle with boobs. There, I said it. And you know what, my boobs aren't really all that great either. Thanks to Victoria's Secret they look half-decent, but I know the TRUTH! Or maybe I just know my own version of the truth. I have short legs, too. Stubby, with thick thighs. I feel blessed without cellulite, but I know what's under there.


I know, self-deprecating. But it is how I feel. I am so close to regretting hitting send on this one - but, I'm just hoping I'm not the only one in here with self doubts. Or -- maybe I am wrong. Maybe the women of LoT are as confident as I believe them to be. But, I have a feeling, somewhere inside of me, that these beautiful, intelligent, most wonderful women I know are probably harboring feelings like this inside of themselves. I don't expect a response - but I just had to say it out loud for once.

I, Erica, am riddled with self doubt -- whether we're talking about beauty or intelligence, I have always felt I was lacking -- but maybe I've been wrong. Maybe I've been wrong all along.

[SacTown Chronic]

I ever tell you how hot I think you are, E?

[€uroMeinke]

I've always been fascinated by this topic, and while it seems more prevalent in women, I think we all harbor these self-doubts about our attractiveness. Part of that is our own critical eye that quickly passes over our "acceptable" parts and focuses on those things we find more lacking, so that those features are the first we see and the one's we can't look away from in the mirror.

My most recent internet searches on beauty lead me to what I originally thought was an absurd notion of genital aesthetics, only to find there a surgeons who specialize in it. Apparently with the ubiquitousness of the porn industry, women are now comparing their nether regions and finding them lacking. That's made me think of some of the things I've been hearing from Islamic Feminists about the power of the Hijab (sp?) the full body covering in that it removes the whole body from any sort of comparison.

Still, I think most of us have a hard time seeing our beauty or worse, exposing our flaws. I look at myself and sure I'd like to be less fat, have less gray in my hair, and posses a Murakami penis - but I don't, so I have to accept myself in some way.

I have no problem for people who take the surgery route, even though I mostly might think it unnecessary, it often create the frame of mind someone need to take to see their beauty - alas that often fails.

It's odd how we see ourselves. In my own experience, I've returned to photographs I took years ago when at their first viewing I could only see "how fat I was" where today I look and wonder where I saw it.

Ok I'll pause before my next stream of consciousness ramble and see what anyone else says.

[€uroMeinke]

I ever tell you how hot I think you are, E?

Me Too!
;)

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Heh, heh, I'm taking a break from writing something that makes manifest of my own thoughts about food right now - which, granted, is not what you were talking about. But in terms of my body image, it's integral.

It used to be 6 days out of 7 that I stepped out the door feeling confident. Or, at least seeming confident. I don't really know, anymore, how much of it is a mental construct and how much is honest confidence.

Of late - following a minor but noticeable (to me, anyway) weight gain that I've definitely been trying to combat (heh, I use the word combat because that's exactly the way I feel sometimes and again, this really relates to my current creative endeavor) I find myself not generally feeling as attractive as I was before. I don't know quite why; it's not so big a weight gain, particularly since I was overweight to begin with. I fit all of my clothes. Maybe it was because I was exactly the same size and shape for enough years that finding myself to be not exactly myself-shaped is a shock.

I have the bonus of having someone who really appreciates me, who is attracted to me despite what is probably a spare 5 pounds on top of a spare 150 pounds. I have the bonus, I'd like to think, of being smart and sometimes interesting. Nevertheless, of late I don't find my physical self quite as attractive as once I did. I don't even have the merit of being a rectangle with boobs. I am just several spheres. You know - oh, wait, you were not at the screenplay read-through, so you don't know - that some days, all I can see in the mirror is a bulbous frog face.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/powerswaterworks/frog.jpg

It's not every day - and even when it is, sometimes I just laugh in the face of frogdom, lovingly. But, you know, I embrace that I am who I am, I take responsibility, and I do what I can to take care of my health - which is chiefly my concern in this process. Still, I will admit that these new pounds are, weirdly, making it harder for me to own the room - as much as I ever do.

By the way, Erica, I think you're lovely and I'd never describe you as rectangular. And what I'm trying to say here is that we all have days that are less than confident. And we all deserve to have more, whatever it takes. I'm pleased with "How to Look Good Naked," too - for what it may do for the women on the show, and for the women watching it, too.

[Gemini Cricket]

Ha. I just posted about this in another thread.
My older sister has always had a terrible opinion of herself and what she looks like. It's really sad. As far back as I can remember, she's hated the way she looked. She was totally flat chested and didn't have big breasts like my mom. So suddenly one day she gets implants. She goes from a A to a D overnight.
I don't know why it bugs me so much, but it does. She looked fine before.
Now she's losing a lot of weight. She thinks she's too fat. She's 90 lbs. Well, she's also 5'0". I wish there was something I could say to improve her self-esteem, but no one can do that for anyone else.

[Not Afraid]

I grew "up" in front of a camera, in beauty pageants, modeling, commercials etc. Then I hit about 8 and all hell broke lose with my body and my Mom never let me forget it. My "favorite" line was "you'd be pretty if only.......(insert something I'll never have here)". When I tried to go back to modeling, I failed miserably. I am WELL aware of all of my bodily faults: nose too big, eyes too small, chin not defined, legs too short and stubby, thighs too large, ankles non-existent, stubby fat feet, too-long body, poochie tummy, etc. Even the great boobs I eventually grew are now marred by surgery and a nasty dog bite. That leaves great hair (which is now greying quickly) a decently formed upper body and a winning smile. Thank GOD I have a sense of style! ;) Oh, and a few less 20 or 30 or more pounds wouldn't hurt me either.

I'd prefer to be clothed that naked (but I'm learning ;)). But, it all has become less important to me the more I accept and like my personality. I'd rather be quirky and fun, loving, nice, entertaining, thoughtful, exciting, true and happy than just purely beautiful. So, Mother be damned (but, don't damn the diet.)

[alphabassettgrrl]

One thing to remember is that only the overly dramatic women will get picked for tv.

I think it's sad that we hold ourselves to an impossible standard. I think many women are perfectly gorgeous, who likely hate themselves for something.

I had thoughts a bit back of starting a thread for everybody (especially the women) to post a thing about themselves that they like. And nobody's allowed to say there is nothing good about themselves- there *is* something wonderful about everybody, so sing it out loud.

Have never watched the show, but if it helps women figure out that they are gorgeous, I'll take it.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

All women - including we smart women ;) - have issues with their bodies, and worry about perceptions.

To be completely honest, (and since the OP is I feel compelled to follow) the really sh!tty thing about being thin is that when I try to talk to people about body issues, I feel as if I'm being discounted. "What's she got to worry about? She's just showing off, she's being a whiner, she's making me feel bad just mentioning it." I've seen the disgust on people's faces. I don't want to hurt people's feelings, so often I try to just stay out of such conversations, which sucks since I have the same issues as everyone else.

I have become far more comfortable with myself in recent years but I swear, every time I go jeans shopping I feel like a freak. Yes, even as I'm purchasing a size 4, I feel like sh!t because they're either way too long or way too short or are too tight in the thighs or pooch out the back. I just bought two more pairs that, after wearing them a few times, I realize don't fit very well. I've learned that all women have some sort of hell they have to go through to find the right jeans. It really does resonate in my head that my body is f'd up because nothing fits right. Maybe one day I'll make a day of it and find THE PERFECT JEANS and buy them forevermore.

Same goes for blouse shopping. There's nothing that will put a frown on my face like trying on a blouse that's my size but is cut for bigger breasts. I've actually had to reassure myself in that dressing room...."don't worry, we'll find something else, even though you love this color/fabric/etc." Diligence helps because it trains you to remember that these clothes are built for the other women, women who have their own issues. Perhaps the next girl that tries this on will squeal in delight as they've finally found their perfect blouse.

I still have times when I look in the mirror and don't like my breasts. I wear padded bras and it really does help my silhouette, but I don't think it does anything for my self-esteem (breast-esteem?). I take off the bra and glance in the mirror, and the word "teat" comes to mind. That's probably my worst and most bizarre body fear - that when I'm topless and I lean over my tits hang like teats. :( I have a theory that one's breasts can never look good to oneself because your perspective looking down on them is always unflattering.

I must say, Erica, that you are a genuinely beautiful woman. We all have our quirks, and not every one in the world is beautiful to me, but in my honest and subjective opinion, you are beautiful. I do love your breasts, and I've seen them sans-bra. :cool: I've often remarked that they were the best pair I saw that night...

[Gemini Cricket]

If I was a straight, I'd totally be attracted to blueerica.

[Prudence]

I have always hated nearly everything about the way I look. Ever since I can remember I've hated everything except my feet. I think my feet look rather nice. But other than that, I've hated my appearance as long as I can remember. I've been told how ugly I am since I was in pre-school. And now - I've given up. I don't bother with makeup any more because - why bother? Lipstick and the pig and all that.

I'm basically okay with it - there has to be ugly for beauty to be appreciated. And absent some giant windfall and a loss of fear of surgery, I don't see that changing. But, I'm working on not letting it define my worth. The *only* reason it bugs me now is because ugly women aren't employable (while ugly men are obviously smart, apparently, to make up for their appearance, ugly women are just useless.)

Oh, and I do have particularly attractive labia. Didn't realize that until much later in life, but they're very attractive, according to modern porn standards.

[madmonkeygirl]

Well i've always struggled with this from day one. My sister is 10 years younger than me and growing up i'd hear all the compliments she'd get and how pretty she was and it just made me have less and less self esteem. I couldn't compete or compare. Her body is different than mine. But that's when i decided that i wanted to change and i did. And for a time i was happy that i could fit into a small size and didn't have a problem with clothes. But then i let myself go again and now i am struggling to get back to my former weight when i was in my 20's. Growing up my brother used to call me "thunder thighs" it hurt and it did make an impact on me negatively in fact. But my weight was hiding an underlying issue i had struggled with since age 5. (for those who know great those who don't i do not feel like rehashing it all). But i really think that had alot to do with it To make myself unattractive was my way of dealing with it.

CP the only jeans i ever have luck in wearing are from Old Navy btw. Those are the only ones that seem to fit right. I don't bother looking for jeans anyplace else. Same with work clothes.

This year 2008 i decided to do something about my body image once and for all. I'm on week 5 and my work pants are so big i am gonna need a smaller size (1 size down) and my one pair of jeans i could not get into i can now slip on and zip and button up.

I used to hate my nose but Matt loves it and i have grown to love it. And my mom has said the same thing to me. There will always be something i don't like about my body (thighs most likely).

Oh about breast implants i was a slow bloomer and thank goodness i never got implants but my sister decided when she was 18 to get implants and we are the same size just about. She didn't want to wait. But that was her choice.

[wendybeth]

Well, this is a timely thread. Let's just say I've spent the last week trying to find a semi-formal outfit, and it's been a demoralizing effort. My boobs are too big for many of the styles that are out there now, and like most people I like the clothing styles that look better on my polar opposite body style. (Tall and skinny). I'm an average height and I would be so stylin' if I lived in the 1800's. (Anyone who's met me irl can attest to how pale I am, and I had curves in the 4th grade). Even when I was in my anorexic phase I had curves.:rolleyes: My sis Bobbi was tall, thin and streamlined- she could wear anything and it looked awesome. She complained about having smaller boobs than me, but I wanted to look just like her. Is there ever a time in our lives when we get to just like who we are and what we look like? I've yet to hit it, whatever and whenever it may be.

[3894]

Words of wisdom from The Lovely Mrs. tod at MousePad:

"Stand up straight and carry yourself with pride. Open up your mind, learn new things. Help those in need, be as generous as you can. Treat people with respect and kindness. Smile often, laugh frequently, reach out and touch your fellow man. Think more about those you love than you think about yourself. Worry less about the firmness of your backside and more about the softness of your countenance.You'll be better than 'remotely attractive.' You'll be absolutely beautiful."

[Drince88]

There are times I go through huge body image issues - and other times, I really 'accept' where I am and can look in the mirror (clothed) and say "Dang, I look hot". I doubt I'll ever say that looking in the mirror naked, but that's ok - I've given up on men and have no attraction to women, so it's likely nobody will ever see me naked 'on purpose'. Heck, my stomach has not seen light of day since puberty (literally) - and I'm ok with that - I've learned what sort of one-piece swimsuits I can buy that accentuate my positive.

I was generally happier when I was at my goal weight - and I've been trying (but not doing so much) to get back there. And I get frustrated as heck when I have to go pants shopping. I've just about given up shopping for dresses - too many different sizes going on.

And unlike Prudence, I don't think I'll ever like my feet - 10W, even on a 5'10" body, is not a pretty size!

Jenny, you have every right to join in on these sorts of conversations. Yes, some women will think/say "Oh, to have your issues" But dang it, just because they'd like to have your issues - doesn't mean they aren't valid issues to have (in the demented world that is just about every woman's issues with body image)

I'd really like to see a world where everyone DOES hold their head high and accept their body as it is and don't have body image issues (in public and in the privacy of their own minds) - but I'd also like to see world peace, and an end to poverty and hunger.

[blueerica]

Hey, maybe if women had better body images, we'd be out there fixing the whole world peace, poverty and hunger thing. You never know...

This morning I woke up thinking I'd regret the beer (yeah, drinking beer while watching a TV show on self esteem - I don't know if that speaks highly for my esteem, or lowly) and posting this so publicly. But before coming to the computer, I brushed my teeth, pulled up my shirt and looked at where my natural waistline is. It's there; not a big curve, but there. I guess I'm not as rectangular as I thought.

I do like my hair, most of the time, well, except for the gray that keeps coming through and doesn't really want to go-way-already. I also like my eyes, especially the color, that unfortunately have my family's dark under-eye circles. I can have the best sleep in the world, and if I'm out through the day or working somewhere, I guarantee one person will say "You look so tired..." Well, I am... tired of everyone telling me I look tired! I like my smile. I have great teeth.


And you know, I like that my feet are veiny, but that has more to do with my being easily amused.

MMG - I've also heard thunder thighs before. I was pretty lucky that I didn't really have them when I was younger, but I think the term, and how everyone else was viewed affected the way I would later view myself. Constant reminders from my grandma that I better hit the gym after eating that one cookie she just baked didn't help either.

Today, I'm treating myself to breakfast. I'm going to relax, read, and try to feel good about myself and who I am... knowing I have such fantastic women at my side here.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Oh, I forgot one more obstacle I'm working on lately:

My feet don't fit normal shoes, they're too wide. Yes, I've shopped Payless in the past, but I finally decided I need to get better quality footwear. I went to Nordstroms but they didn't have the styles I want. So now I'm on Zappos. I just sent back a pair of wides so I could get a pair of double wides. Yeech. Even having to admit to the Zappos customer service phone line that I need double wides made me wince. On the other hand, I can't wait for them to show up, not only because they may actually fit, but because they're a size 8. I've been buying 8.5 and 9 for years to accomodate the wideness and they never fit right, duh. I'm willing to bet that even if they are double wide, they will look less like boats than my older pairs.

That's the thing - you have to accept your shortcomings to shop right, but once you do, the clothes you buy will actually fit and make you look better!

[blueerica]

Funny shoes should be coming up. I have an average width for part of my foot, yet a skinny heel. Makes non-strappy shoes flip up and down when I walk. Bleh.

I do tend to do better with Steve Madden shoes, and the other day I bought a pair of 2" pumps that miraculously don't flip up and down, at least not that I can tell yet. Huzzah!

[cirquelover]

This is a very timely topic indeed! As I grow older I find I am less happy with myself, in all ways.

I am trying to improve my physical self because the cellulite seems to be popping up where it wasn't before. It could also be I was ignoring it before!! The extra pounds really help accentuate the problem areas though!

My hair has been greying like crazy for the last few years. Zach and I even dies my hair last year because he said it was getting grey. This morning I go to show Gary CP's thread on Obama and he says " Oh my hunny, I'm so sorry!" as he starts pawing through my hair and yanking a few more white ones! It's also thinning alot, which really has me concerned. I have very straight,thin hair to begin with and every time I lose a bunch I freak out a little more.

I think the piece de resistance is I'm feeling stupid some days. I look back at my postings yesterday and can SEE that I can't spell and some days I come off looking very disjointed or scattered. I don't want to become my Mother!! Help Me! So I have been doing brain age on my Wii, it's supposed to help. The problem with that is somedays my "brain age" is 10-15 years older than me!

CP- Don't ever feel bad, or let others make you feel that way, when you need to air your feelings too! I have friends in all shapes and sizes and I don't think any of us is supremely confident in every aspect of their bodies and themselves. You are just as entitled to your issues as they are to theirs!

[MouseWife]

Geesh, body image and women.

I could list from my toes up to the gray spikey hairs that pop out of the top of my head. That would be too depressing and long so I won't.

But, what I do want to mention is this. My sis and I, both in our early 40's, well, we do the best we can. Kids and life taking their toll and we go with the flow and just try and age as gracefully as we can. Using sunscreen, trying to eat as best as we can and do good things for us and our kids.

Then, our younger niece, about 35, constantly has surgery. Her mom {our sis} tells us how good she looks. Hello? Of course, she's had lipo and every other thing she can have done.

Where am I going with that? I don't know. Just the way that is and yah for her if she can afford it but why then should we be expected to say 'Yes, she looks better than we do after having 4 kids'. No f'in sheit. Hello, I could also be damn good looking if I forked out a ton of cash.

Irritating because she really does throw around rude comments about us and how she claims to eat well and exercise, like that is how she did it. :rolleyes:

And, LSPoorEyorick, I also can wear the same clothes but have gained weight. I know they don't look the same and I feel quite self conscience about it when I go out. *sigh* I wonder if people say 'Hey, she used to look nicer in that...' but I think that they don't, it is just me and my low self esteem.

CP~ Feet. Like I said, that is where my list would begin....hope the new shoes work.

[Drince88]

That's the thing - you have to accept your shortcomings to shop right, but once you do, the clothes you buy will actually fit and make you look better!

Words to live by!

[blueerica]

Seriously, guys, I need a Wii.

[tracilicious]

I love this thread.

Up until recently I've had pretty crippling body issues. Starting at three when my older brother used to make fun of my baby chub. From that point on I considered myself fat, even though I was a pretty average kid, than a very chubby early teen, than a skinny older teen, then an average adult, than an adult with a lot of baby fat of a different kind to lose after two pregnancies (and two very stressful moves that put on more weight than the babies did). Throughout every body stage I always considered myself fat and ugly. Now I look back at those times and wish I had appreciated myself more. Not only because sometimes I was not fat, but because we all deserve self appreciation.

I found myself at a dieting/weight loss block recently. I just couldn't bring myself to do it. Part of it was probably just being tired of spending the last 15 years dieting, but a lot of it was that I wanted to accept myself, no...love myself, the way I am right now. There is a lot about my body that I want to change, but there are also some things that are pretty great. The big revelation was that I can love myself while still wanting to change my physical appearance.

I'm eating super healthy lately and exercising more, but it feels now like an act of self care rather than self violence. It's funny, but now even though I want to lose forty pounds I feel hot more often. And I get hit on more, too. And I think I am hotter than when I was a skinny nineteen year old. I'm smarter, more cultured, funnier, more confident, and the sex is a whole hell of a lot better too. Hotness is an internal thing. I don't care how you look, you can still come across as hot.

Here's to all the hot lot babes. :cheers:

[blueerica]

:cheers:

And I should mention again that How To Look Good Naked is a pretty darn good show. I don't know if it's a "must-catch-every-week" and miss other shows kind of show, but hopefully they'll build an arsenal enough to have repeats, and in the meanwhile I get to record this show.

Huzzah!

[Prudence]

I don't think female body image would be such a big deal if women valued each other for more than our looks. Not that men do not also judge each other on appearance, but my impression from the outside is that other attributes are also valued: physical strength, salary, intelligence, etc. Might be just as superficial, but there are other assets considered when assessing a man's self worth.

My experience with women is that women, as a collective gender, buy into the idea that a) physical beauty is the most important attribute and b) there's only room for one woman above the glass ceiling -- with physical appearance the major determinant in who that woman should be. If we want to be treated as more than just baby factories we need to treat each other as more than baby factories. This is a gross generalization, of course, but I wish that women would value each other more for all they do and all they are that is worthwhile and admirable.

I might look like an ugly duckling, but my mind is a glorious swan. I wish more people would take the time to learn and appreciate that before allowing my appearance to speak for not just my appearance, but also my intelligence, morality, and divine worth.

[alphabassettgrrl]

Is there ever a time in our lives when we get to just like who we are and what we look like? I've yet to hit it, whatever and whenever it may be.

Some women do, some don't, I think.

Then, our younger niece, about 35, constantly has surgery. Her mom {our sis} tells us how good she looks. Hello? Of course, she's had lipo and every other thing she can have done.

Does it make her happy? Or does she continue to have surgery? My theory is that surgery doesn't make us happy unless we're happy inside first but that doesn't happen very often. So many of us look to surgery (outside) to make us happy (inside).

I'm eating super healthy lately and exercising more, but it feels now like an act of self care rather than self violence. It's funny, but now even though I want to lose forty pounds I feel hot more often. And I get hit on more, too. And I think I am hotter than when I was a skinny nineteen year old. I'm smarter, more cultured, funnier, more confident, and the sex is a whole hell of a lot better too. Hotness is an internal thing. I don't care how you look, you can still come across as hot.

:: cheers :: Hurray!!! Hotness is definitely an internal thing. :)

but I wish that women would value each other more for all they do and all they are that is worthwhile and admirable.

:: cheers:: for you, too. I absolutely agree- I wish we would value each other for more than just looks. I wish we would cooperate instead of compete. How about be nice to each other? :)

[wendybeth]

Just today I had a conversation with a client to that effect, ABG. I'll never understand why women view each other as competition rather than comrades. My mom could never retain female friends- she would get all competitive weird with them and before long there would be a huge falling-out. (She was the same way with us girls). What's really funny is that she fancied herself a feminist.

I think we hold each other back from success in this world more than any glass ceiling constructed by the good ol' boy's club. I try not to be part of that problem, and I will quickly distance myself from any woman who I suspect is like my mom. My radar is pretty good, and as such the female friendships I do have are longstanding and mutually respectful.

And Pru? Please stop referring to yourself as ugly, because it's not true. I won't have anyone talking about my friend that way, all right?:p

[MouseWife]

abg~ nope. She isn't happy. And you are so right, it is on the inside that she really does have problems. I think she feels if she looks perfect, she is. Poor girl, she really does have a lot of problems but this, of course, does not fix it.

wb~ you are so right. At work, it is the women who have issues with me. Not that I have men fawning over me, they just don't get all uptight over me. But, one woman in particular, damn, but she really knocks every thing about me. Mostly my parenting. I won't go into it but I don't argue with her as I feel what I say would insult the other women. That is something I never would want to do.

Watching t.v. tonight, wow, there are tons of images that are there to make us {me} insecure, to look at myself and feel uncomfortable with how I look when I do things....

Umm...I know why I am in charge of our family pictures. ;0)

[alphabassettgrrl]

I think the competition has to do with "getting a man". Yet even once they get one, they are still wierd. Whatever. I'm with you, WB, that my female friends are truly my friends and don't have that weirdness dynamic. I may have fewer of them than someone else, but I like my friends. I'm happy with my choice.

I think another factor going into our odd behaviors is that we have learned that to get ahead in a man's world, we have to act as competitive as men, in the same way as men. Only we don't. There are ways of getting ahead where we don't have to sell our soul. Let's do that. Maybe we won't be high-powered executives embezzling millions, but we can be important in other ways, and most importanly, feel good about how we got there.

[Prudence]

Actually, I think we can be competitive, but we should compete with our whole selves, not just our image. And drop the "there can be only one" mentality. It's okay for other women to be successful, too.

[wendybeth]

I think competition is fine, Pru- it can even be healthy. That is, provided it's based on merit and performance rather than through manipulative action or good looks. (Unless one is playing 'Survivor', of course. )

[€uroMeinke]

So more random thoughts from one of the only guys posting here:

Seems physical beauty is often a foot-in-the-door sort of advantage - get's people to look and pay attention. I've certainly heard from a lot of people on the online dating front, that the profile picture was important for them to initiate any contact - or at least accurate physical descriptions.

I think there's also a youth component along with beauty. I know for myself seeing the physical signs of aging on my body has been the more recent source of distress for me. Last week I noticed that the skin on the backs of my hands was looking "old" and that alone made me go sown a path of thinking I was becoming less attractive - or more realistically mortal advancing another day closer to my death. So there are things about me I wonder if there's anything I can do. I mean sure I can lose weight - but those ear hairs that showed up on my 30th birthday are still coming back, grooves are becoming more permanent as my skin loses it's elasticity adn I start to wonder how my skin would hang if I ever did lose the weight I'd hope to.

Getting old sucks and yet it's a path we're all on.

[3894]

Getting old sucks and yet it's a path we're all on.

And yet, age has its rewards. A vintage broad such as myself doesn't look twice at a boy. But a man of experience? He turns my head.

[blueerica]

You know, I think the whole competition thing is what has kept me from having very many female friends. Those that I do have are generally able to limit the cattiness, which I can't stand. I do have to say, I have more female since I joined this fine group. Prior to that, I think I only had one or two females I really talked to on a regular basis - outside of family, of course..

[CoasterMatt]

And drop the "there can be only one" mentality.
For some reason, this conjures up a horrific image of Christopher Lambert in drag.

[innerSpaceman]

I hope it's ok for a guy to jump in here and say that body image problems are not exclusive to women (though they may be endemic to them) ;)


But yeah, being a 5foot6 guy in a world of American men, i have had body issues bordering on (and sometimes crossing into) neuroses for decades.

And it's not like I ignore positives like the fact I look (if I do say so myself) about a decade younger than the "norm" for my age in years.


So the good stands alongside the bad. And just like in the world of news ... the bad gets most of the attention. It's the same with the male hair patten oddities I likely have from a lower testosterone level ... do I focus on the fortune that I'm nowhere near bald at my age? No, I stress over the fact that I don't have sideburns and couldn't grow a beard on a bet.

I try not to give it too much focus, and it helps to know that we all focus on our personal negatives that no one else in the world really notices or cares about. But being back in the dating game doesn't help my success rate with keeping these neuroses under control.


Ugh, perhaps if I lived in Tokyo ... but I often feel like a hobbit living in Los Angeles.



Ok, enough with the confessional.


The important thing is that WHO we ARE is what makes us attractive or not. And really, the things we obsess about regarding our physical appearance are rarely a concern to anyone else but us.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

It wasn't too long ago that Hobbits were hot - I'm sure you can still work that angle. ;)

I think we LoT women do a pretty good job of not being catty with each other...this is definitely the largest group of women that I've ever counted as actual friends.

Interesting how Pru brings up competition regarding our other attributes. To me, this can be every bit as destructive. I've always had issues regarding how "good" I am, judging how diligent I am in all sorts of areas, from keeping the house clean to making good use of my spare time to getting to bed on time. I'm actually quite a lazy person (by my own estimation) and all the overthinking just gives me issues.

I'm eating super healthy lately and exercising more, but it feels now like an act of self care rather than self violence.I love this observation. In recent times I've been able to classify self-improvement in a much more positive light and that's what makes the difference. Not "I suck and I need to fix me", but "I care about myself enough to be the best I can be."

[Morrigoon]

I definitely have my insecurities, but the more I listen to other women expose theirs, the more confident in myself I realize I actually am. Would I like to be thin and able to run around in a bikini? Sure. Do I place a high enough priority on it that I would be willing to go through what it would take to get there?

F* no.

And I think it is that realization that somehow makes me realize that I'm really pretty okay with myself. My appearance frustrations usually stem from the lack of availability of the kinds of cute clothes I like to cover myself in, in my size. When I see things which I think, "hey, that would look cute on me in my size", and then I realize that the designers or the store's buyers didn't agree because they don't have it in my size, it frustrates me. But that frustration stems more from how the world sees me and my size than it does from how *I* see it. I want to be me, and I don't want the world telling me that I should not like ME as well as I do.

I'm every fat-haters nightmare :evil:

(I do have an insecurity related to a baby tooth I have where the real one never came in, and I technically have a tooth in the right spot but sometimes it gives the impression of a missing tooth. And my left eye is squinty. But both those only really bother me much in photos which only capture a single impression of a person, rather than a moving profile)

[Not Afraid]

I was at an event today where there were stylists and make up artists. As the day wore on, we ran out of customers and started talking to each other. I was trying out some mineral make-up and hated the way it make me look. It was probably the first time I preferred myself without make-up than with it. (Of course, make-up does not include lipstick for me because that's not make-up, it's a necessity!) I used to love playing with make-up but I'm definitely in the less is more school at the moment except for lipstick - which I LOVE a strong, defined mouth).

[tracilicious]

(I do have an insecurity related to a baby tooth I have where the real one never came in, and I technically have a tooth in the right spot but sometimes it gives the impression of a missing tooth. And my left eye is squinty. But both those only really bother me much in photos which only capture a single impression of a person, rather than a moving profile)

I have that exact same insecurity! (The tooth, not the eye.)

[Ponine]

Oh where to start.... first, I ran into a Look Better Naked marathon or something over the winter break. I had never seen the show before, and never since. The very first gal i saw looked like me. Not as heavy, but a fairly pale brunette.

I like Carson, I Liked the show, and everything the show did reminded me of a friend of mine, and their pep talks.
I however, felt like garbage when the show was over.

I look in the mirror everyday. I detest what I see. At this moment I am 225-230. Whats odd, to me anyway, is that at 145 when I went to try on wedding dresses... what.. 14 years ago, I was told I was too fat to try anything in the stores on. Nothing they had would fit me, and I got that same answer in four store. So, I missed out on that little gem.

But even though I thought I was 'passable' then, I do not feel so now.
Every day I inventory those things that bother me.
I have a membership to a gym, I pay for it. Do I go? No.
Why? I lack the inspiration. I know I should, and i know that I might feel better if I did. I might start to lose that belly that I detest.

I hate having my picture taken; there's always a chance that you'll get my double chin, or that bad eye, and never a chance that you might see an attractive person.
Yeah, I whine that I am never in any LoT shots, but at the same time, I'm glad. I dont want to be the one that ruins the shot.



I don't think female body image would be such a big deal if women valued each other for more than our looks.
As in women valuing other womens looks? Yeah... we're like that as a whole arent we?
I'd love to comment on your ugly duckling'ness, but I havent seen you. I am sure that you radiate the personality that I have come to rely on and relate to on the board, and I cannot wait to actually meet you.


I'll never understand why women view each other as competition rather than comrades.
Have you ever noticed that it almost doesnt matter , its like they dont want each other to be happy at all. If one is, everyone tried to outshine that happiness and dull it?


So more random thoughts from one of the only guys posting here:

Seems physical beauty is often a foot-in-the-door sort of advantage - get's people to look and pay attention. I've certainly heard from a lot of people on the online dating front, that the profile picture was important for them to initiate any contact - or at least accurate physical descriptions.


Oh sure. And thats very true. For me, it works loads better if I meet someone over the phone, or initiate the contact in another way other than sight. Sight alone and I am likely to be dismissed.

oddly enough, my profile pic usually was a very skinny Frances Ruffle, and many people have thought it was me, and accordingly said very nice things about my wieght and etc.
How interesting their reactions are when I say, no, thats not me, and I'm actually two of her.

I dont know BE. Our culture, and our personal experieinces have made us very body concious.
Chances are that I will prob never watch that show again, mostly because it was so incredilby depressing for me.
I know what bothers me about my body. And its not just the double chin, the bad eye, the swollen feet and the HUGE thighs.
However, I don't suspect that it will change any time real soon, but I can live with that.

And what did you say BE? a rectangle with boobs? Hmm... I'm not a rectangle. Maybe an oval.
I dont remember your body shape at all. I will tell you that what I do remember is a wonderful smile, and a very exotic and intriguing face.

:cheers: Here you go , a toast to our less than perfect body types.

oh, and CP, I've seen them. Personally, I never thought of teats.

[blueerica]

:cheers:

And thank you. :)

[innerSpaceman]

Heheh, my reasons for a trip to Japan: 1) Have fun with the Lashes; 2) Enjoy a culture I've always found facsinating; 3) Go clothes shopping in a world where men's pants will actually fit me.


Yes, I have to travel to a foreign land for that. Ugh.



On the plus side ... leaving all clothing issues aside, and I've never watched the show ... but I look pretty good naked. ;)

[Nephythys]

I loathe my body image- sometimes dangerously so.

4 kids, the fact that I tend to eat when I am stressed, several abdominal surgeries which have left scars and all sorts of hills and dimples in my already pudgy tummy and add cellulite to the mix and the fact that I am chronically sedentary.....well, you have a disaster.

I'm tall and so I get away with alot- but I can see the damage weight and gravity is doing to my body. I can guarantee that if I would just do some moderate exercise I would lose weight because I do not eat excessively all the time and not all that fatty of foods either.

But I don't. I don't know why.

I know another part of my image issues is my wardrobe since I need to dress business casual 4 days out of the week- and I have not bought work clothes since before Rose was born. Oh I have gotten a piece here and there- but nothing that makes me feel very comfortable and competent.

I finally bought new clothes yesterday- which I consider pretty healthy. Reason being that I think I have resisted buying clothes in bigger sizes-I finally accepted that I would be happier and more comfortable in a size that fits me- even if I don't want to be that size in 6 months to a year.

I feel ugly- even though I know I am not. I feel undesireable- and I blame Jupiter ;) It is within my power to change this image- but I find it hard to start on that road.

[alphabassettgrrl]

Ponine- you were told you were fat at *145*????????? That's astounding. And wrong. Go ahead and get in on some of the pictures- I promise you won't ruin them! I want you to be in them and I'm sure I'm not alone! :)

The thing about making healthy changes is that it reinforces itself once you get a couple good habits established. I just tossed my Disneyland fudge because it didn't taste good anymore. I used to *love* that stuff. Burger King yesterday made me feel loggy and heavy and just yuck. I always thought it was bunk when people said food made them feel differently depending on what they ate. They are right! It's surprising.

I'm eating a lot more healthy snacks these days and even though I'm not losing weight per se, I feel better. Healthy snacks, bring a gigantic jug of water so I don't run out, and tea have been my starting habits. Cooking at home helps, too, because while I still eat too much meat, at least it's broiled instead of deep-fat-fried. And I usually put veggies with it, which fast food generally skips.

Come on, ladies, look proudly in the mirror!!! All body shapes and types welcome in the gorgeous club. :) Culture at large only gives us one body type that is beautiful- let's reject that notion. Everybody all together now- I am beautiful! I love me!

[Nephythys]

I am fat and unhealthy- I can't say I love that.

Cancer
Gall bladder disease
and the stress on my body is devastating.

Heart disease is the #1 killer of women.

I can't lie and say I love me- I am afraid for me.

[Not Afraid]

Ponine, I've always thought that you are beautiful! I can't imagine you without your wonderful curves.

[MouseWife]

Yep, I can imagine someone saying that 145 is too heavy. In high school, I was a 5 dress and 7 pant; somehow we were discussing this {why I can't recall} and size seven came up. This guy said 'Is that the largest they come?' Of course now I'd say 'F off dumshiet' but then I thought 'Wow, I must be sooo huge'. I had been heavier in middle school but lost the weight over the summer between schools. So, I still felt much heavier.

The mind really does mess with us. Our scale was off. Instead of just doing the math I just didn't bother getting on it. Wow, bad choice. I went and bought a digital one and it is helping me to think twice about sleeping instead of doing something.

Peoples' perceptions on line and in person. Hmm. Well, having lost a lot of weight, I have seen a big difference in how people treat me. It really sucks because I am the same person. One person told me that if they had known me heavy, they probably wouldn't have felt the same about me. Gee, thanks.

I hate to be in pictures. I do get in them, I know that it is good in the future to show that I, in fact, did participate in life. I see myself and think please don't let me really look like that in person.....

I don't think it is a good idea to take too seriously how you look when you are using a magnifying mirror to pluck your eyebrows, either.....:eek:

Oh, and to add since I read NA's post, yes, I think that everyone is beautiful, however they look. I've felt such warmth from most everyone and such personality from everyone!!! I think that is sooo important. Beauty + Hot Bod + no personality + no compassion = a person not really worth my time.

[Not Afraid]

Weight is a meaningless number unless you're talking about health issues. Health issues are probably the BEST reason to lose weight because obesity leads to so many other horrible results. Is food really that important that you let it ruin so many other quality of life experiences?

We're such a "immediate gratification" culture. I feel, therefore I need to act. It would be better if we didn't care about food so much. Sadly, I really like to eat, I like flavor, I like cheese and chocolate, and I don't always make the best choices when I'm hungry. The long term effects of obesity are far away from my mind when I make the choice to eat something right now. I don't know how to bridge that gap.

You would think that if something made you that unhappy, you wouldn't do it in the same way any more. But, isn't that the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.

[innerSpaceman]

At least weight can be lost. Height cannot be gained.

There are surgical solutions to both, I suppose. Drastic in one case .... extremely drastic in the other.


Oh well, at least shortness is not a health issue (unless it's shortness of breath). But it's one that no amount of diet and exercise is ever going to address.

Not a pity plea ... just a perception test. Some body image issues can be addressed, and if they bother you to a certain degree ... they should be.


If they don't .... they're not an issue.

[Ponine]

We actually touched briefly on this topic the last time I was with the LoT gals. It's still my body image. Or yours, or whomevers. Everyone has done growing in the last few years, and someone who might be more comfortable in their skin now, might not have been two years ago.
I am not comfortable in my curves, in my face, in my hair. But, truly, nothing you can do will change that.

I spent a long time being told I was too this, or too that. And whats the Pretty Woman line? Its a lot easier to believe the bad stuff than it is the good?

I know I'm curvy, its painfully obvious. But I also know who I see everyday of my life, and they are not curvy. Or at least, not the same kind of curvy.
I wondered once, what would it be like if I ran into a phtographer, that could take a picture, that maybe didnt show face, or anything x rated, but was able to make me look pretty.
To help me see what someone sees that likes what they are looking at.

Ponine- you were told you were fat at *145*????????? That's astounding. And wrong. Go ahead and get in on some of the pictures- I promise you won't ruin them! I want you to be in them and I'm sure I'm not alone! :)

Somehow, I tend to miss the group photo's. I just wasnt there when they happened. Otherwise, I just dont naturally gravitate to a camera.
Hence, there tends to be little photographic evidence that I am ever actually anywhere. I'm actually a phantom. And you know, with the amount of cameras at meets you would think that this would not be the case!
So, in truth it is not ALL avoidance.
But yes, at 145 I was told I was fat. Just imagine how knowing the scale says 200+ feels now. :rolleyes:

Yep, I can imagine someone saying that 145 is too heavy. Ironically, when I was 145, I wore a size 9, only because of height. and in '87, a 9 was huge. I bought most of my clothes through catalogs even then.


I don't think it is a good idea to take too seriously how you look when you are using a magnifying mirror to pluck your eyebrows, either.....:eek:.
Ah, the one thing I retained from MaryKay training. Never look at your face/makeup at a distance of less than 2 feet. No one else will be closer than that distance, and anyone who is, doesnt care what your makeup looks like.



Not a pity plea ... just a perception test. Some body image issues can be addressed, and if they bother you to a certain degree ... they should be.


If they don't .... they're not an issue.
I agree with you, which is why you dont hear me whining about my height.
Doesnt mean that I have the motivation or confidence to go fix it.

[Strangler Lewis]

For a good novel on the subject of body image, I recommend "The Earth, My Butt and Other Big Round Things," by Carolyn Mackler. The ultimate message that comes through is that fat is a health issue that should be addressed but that you should not let others obsess over what your ideal body type should be. Food should not be a substitue for love or other positive feelings, any more than guys should be--as Mackler so deftly demonstrates in "Guyaholic," her most recent book.

It was a long plane flight.

[alphabassettgrrl]

But yes, at 145 I was told I was fat.

I want to go back in time and *smack* that person- 145 isn't fat unless you're 3 feet tall. They were *wrong*. Even 200 isn't a problem on some people. Even when I was a teen, I wore an 8. And I *know* I wasn't fat.

Nephy- unhealthy I can agree is bad. Don't worry about the fat thing- it'll find its own balance. Fat's an insult used to lob at someone you want to feel bad and is often not deserved. I think you look great, so who cares what the scale says? Eat, move around, and you're fine.

Everything's coming out wrong right now but please be gentle to yourself. We are such our own worst critics!

[Not Afraid]

I realized there are people on this board who have known me a various weights. When Chris met me, I was 123 lbs and skinny skinny (and gross!). That was my absolute thinnest and I'd NEVER want to go back there (and I was still not "model material"). I've mostly fluctuated between 140 and 190 but even at 150 I'm not "thin".

I find that if "thin" is a goal, I'm never going to make it (and I'm not sure I really should want to). The only advantage I have when I'm thin is that clothes fit better because I'm a coat hanger. But, do I really want to BE thin? In actuality, probably not. I like curves and softness. It's much more attractive and certainly feels better to the body cuddling with yours. But, even knowing that, I still secretly hope for "thin" again one day. That's pretty dangerous thinking.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I'm currently trying to lose weight. Mostly because I know I've got genes against me. Both of my parents made it into their late 20s/early 30s at average weights, and then quickly began the slide into obesity. For my dad, it became diabetes, near fatal infection, and a stroke. My mom has blood pressure and cholesterol issues and struggled for decades with the weight.

Fortunately they have both gotten things under control in recent years, and fortunately for me I share my Dad's trait of being able to lose the weight "simply" by reducing calories and increasing activity. The hard part is doing that because I share my mom's love for the act of eating.

I've seen my future if I don't pay attention now. I'll never be skinny. I'll never be ripped. I am looking forward to losing the belly and love handles. I know I'm far from obese at my current weight, but when I started is was the heaviest I've ever been (pushing 200lbs) and no, I did not particularly feel good about looking in the mirror. But mostly it didn't feel good to feel like crap because I over-ate nearly every day at lunch, or not be able to make it up and down a soccer field more than twice without wanting to keel over. And it definitely didn't feel good staring down a future of weight-related disease that I'm more than likely prone to.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Oh, and as a side benefit, Wii Boxing (my preferred workout vehicle) has given my shoulders and biceps some awesome definition. That I can live with.

[BarTopDancer]

All our LoT women are beautiful inside and out.

I'll never be smaller than an 8 (which is not what I am now) because I have hips. I like my hips and I'd be happy to be an 8. I'd love to lose about 30lbs. That would put me at a healthy weight that I would be happy with.

As I get older I notice how certain foods effect me. I've mostly cut out HFCS and I can tell when I eat something that contains it. A lot of overly processed foods make me feel sluggish, so I try to avoid them - though I'll still eat them if the mood hits. I know Spaghetti Os will put me in a food coma. But they are so yummy.

Eating healthier, and exercising is the way I hope to accomplish my weight loss - which I would like to do to become healthier, and lower my risk of heart issues and diabetes.

[Morrigoon]

If I lost 30 lbs, I'd be 186. I could happily deal with that.

Hell, I'm ecstatic just to find out that I'm 216.

I've been floating between 225-240 for the last couple years, so it's all a matter of perspective.

[innerSpaceman]

My goal is to grow 3 inches vertically by the end of the year. I eat well and exercise right. Wish me luck!

[Morrigoon]

Losing weight can seem just as impossible at times. With the added hatefulness of the world thinking we can "just diet" and make it all right.

[Not Afraid]

So, 30 pounds seems like a common goal. Should we do something about it?

[BarTopDancer]

So, 30 pounds seems like a common goal. Should we do something about it?

5lbs by [insert date here] ;)

I've started walking/running 3 days a week and eating healthier. The best way to lose weight and keep it off is to make it a lifestyle change and not a fad/short term diet. And it takes 16 days to make a habit (I think). Also been playing Wii tennis and boxing.

[Strangler Lewis]

Losing weight can seem just as impossible at times. With the added hatefulness of the world thinking we can "just diet" and make it all right.

5lbs by [insert date here] ;)

I've started walking/running 3 days a week and eating healthier. The best way to lose weight and keep it off is to make it a lifestyle change and not a fad/short term diet. And it takes 16 days to make a habit (I think). Also been playing Wii tennis and boxing.

What BTD said. The mechanics of losing weight are simple. More exercise and diet modification. Don't drink your calories. Whole grain bread. One slice instead of two. No more mounds of greasy rice or noodles. Limit desserts and alcohol to truly special occasions. Portion control. Don't eat late. Brush your teeth after every meal to eliminate the need to throw fresh tastes after sour ones.

And, yes, I'll say it. Everybody stop posting all the time about all the unhealthy food you ate/are eating/want to eat.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

So, 30 pounds seems like a common goal. Should we do something about it?

Already am. But I am not looking at it in terms of goal-weight or even pounds lost. Life change, not diet. Health, not size.

And while the mechanics of losing weight may be "that simple," SL, I have watched myself eat less and move more than others who are on a similar track and lose a lot faster. The slow (for me) process is very difficult and disheartening but I'm still on track.

[Strangler Lewis]

I meant conceptually simple. I've never had the metabolism that others have, even when I'm in a fairly athletic routine. I accept it and keep on keeping on.

[Not Afraid]

What BTD said. The mechanics of losing weight are simple. More exercise and diet modification. Don't drink your calories. Whole grain bread. One slice instead of two. No more mounds of greasy rice or noodles. Limit desserts and alcohol to truly special occasions. Portion control. Don't eat late. Brush your teeth after every meal to eliminate the need to throw fresh tastes after sour ones.



You got it. But, if your metabolism has been out of whack for a very long time or you're "older", the process can be slower and frustrating.

For me, losing weight usually is a by product of eating better and exercising more, but the health benefits of fewer pounds are HUGE for me. I don't care if I eat a perfect diet, if I'm carrying 50 extra pounds around, my risk for all sorts of "things that killed my family" go WAAAAYYYY up.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Fair, sure... I'm sorry if I came across as snappish; I have just had a lot of people tell me how it should be "easy" for me, and it just isn't so! But, like you, it's a keep-on keeping-on thing. Fortunately this time around, I've found success in forgiving myself an occasional misstep; they're getting rarer. This is a learning process, and unlike prior attempts where one, say, serving of string cheese would make me fall off the wagon, this time it's been: I ate this string cheese. It had x calories. I will eat less by x calories, and do better tomorrow.

[BarTopDancer]

Every body reacts differently to food. Some people (like GD) can eat less, move more and see a change quickly. Some people like myself (and sounds like H) can eat less, move more and it's a long road to see change.

From what it seems, men can drop weight a lot easier then women. It's genetics and biology.

[katiesue]

So I've been working on a reply to this thread. Some of these things have actually come up for me as well recently and I've been mulling about posting them.

I don't look in mirrors anymore. I noticed it a year or so ago. Oh I check to see if my make up is smudged or if I've gotten something on my shirt but I don't really really look. A quick glance to see what I need to see and that's it. I don't like what I see so I just don't look. I caught myself in a reflection at the mall this weekend and was horrified to be honest. I'm not sure how I got to be this size. I avoid photos if at all possible as well.

Growing up I was scrawny - a beanpole. I spent three years trying to GAIN weight. My goal was to get to 115 forever. I didn't get my period until I was 16 so flat as a board as well. And to be honest I was fine with that. I'm not a fan of the boobs. They get in my way.

My Dad always called me ugly. As a nickname. It was supposed to be humorous - and I took it that way on the surface. But years of it and I guess it seeped in a little at a time. Maybe I really am ugly. My Great-Aunt would always say I should be a model and I secretly thought she was being overly kind, and perhaps she was becoming a slight bit dotty. I look at photos of myself then and I really don't look horrible at all. But at the time - that's not what I thought.

I think part of it has been Maddy, because when she was smaller she was an exact replicate of me sans eye color. If she was that cute I couldn't have been that horrible if we look alike right?

What brought this up for me was last weekend with my Sister & Brother In Law (he went to High School with us). They were telling Maddy how back in the day I wasn't as uncool as she thinks I am now. And it was so odd to me. How other people have said things over the years about how they think of/remember me is so totally off from how I saw/see myself. My sister said I was a "trend setter. Everyone waited to see what she was wearing and copied it". My Brother In Law "Everyone knew Katie McQ - and if you didn't you knew of her". Seriously me? I had one date in high school. I wasn't unpopular but I was never homecoming queen or LIT princess or anything like that. Oh sure I knew everyone but it was a small school and half of us started out in Kindergarten so of course I knew people. My friend Steve (Joe cool, captain of the football team) mentioned a few years ago that I was "hot, gorgeous, sexy, amazing, etc" - how could I be so totally off? Goober would have been my description of myself. Oh I would have thrown in smart and funny and all that. But looks wise - goober.

My opinion - I'm average. I don't think I'm ugly but I don't think I'm all that either. On a decent hair day in the right light - I'm not scary. And I've always been ok with that. I've always been in the brains/personality count more camp anyway. But now that I weigh more than I did when I was preggers - ugh. I just can't look in the mirror for more than a few seconds.

Of course this is all my own doing - and I need to get up off my ever growing butt and do something about it. Swanie's cajoled me into the Disneyland 1/2 Marathon in August so that's my goal. To get in shape by then so I don't need paramedics.

How do we get so off in our perceptions of ourselves compared to how the rest of the planet seems to view us?

[alphabassettgrrl]

We show other people our best qualities yet our inner voice lists every flaw we know we have. Other people may be too busy worrying about their flaws to notice ours.

So everybody else thinks we're cool, and we think we're a goober. Reality? We are both cool and goober.

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

Do you think we could get Richard Simmons to join LoT?
Swankin' to the Oldies!

[Sub la Goon]

Still waiting for the Girls of LoT calendar...

[blueerica]

I put a twist on something that was said to me some time ago, and it's really helped in the public speaking department: Most people are too busy thinking about themselves to give a sh*t about me, and it's the same in reverse - so why not capitalize on that? I find that standing up and talking isn't as hard on me as I am on myself in front of the mirror.

Oddly, I don't think I've been as attractive as I am today in a long while, and that was on top of a fairly stupid/rough day. Every day since bringing this up has made me more confident in myself, and I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because I've started looking at the positives again. It was really easy to get wrapped up into what was wrong, so it's a hard mold to break.

And iSm, it's a shame that men's fashion isn't quite what women's is in the lengthening department. I am thankful that there are proportion tricks we can use to make certain things bigger, smaller, shorter and taller. That's one thing all women should be thankful for. It's out there...

[€uroMeinke]

How do we get so off in our perceptions of ourselves compared to how the rest of the planet seems to view us?

This is the question I keep coming back to, because even if we lost the pounds we'd like to no doubt there'd be some other reminder of our mortality and imperfection to take it's place.

I suppose the first step is recognizing it as something we inflict upon ourselves. The rest, I don't know. It's often hard to acknowledge complements from others or believe the nice things they may say (especially when in those poor body image moments) even when true.

Maybe there's a whole Kubla-Ross process you have to go through? Perhaps we all should have a screening of All That Jazz?

[Ghoulish Delight]

Every body reacts differently to food. Some people (like GD) can eat less, move more and see a change quickly. Oh, I didn't say quickly. Just effectively. It is certainly not quickly.

[Not Afraid]

How's your healthy diner, honey?

[Disneyphile]

I honestly don't care about others' perceptions of my body if they think I'm too fat. However, I do find myself getting irked by people who say to me, "You're fat and beautiful! Be proud!"

I don't give a crap how I look. It's how I feel. And, for me it's more of a physiological feeling, which then affects my emotions, rather than the other way around.

Because of that, I do not like being fat. I can feel the strain on my joints. I get out of breath sometimes easily. I get too hot too easily. And, I often feel lazy and lethargic. Those feelings do affect me, because I get sad thinking about how I don't have the leg and joint strength to go rock climbing or surfing. I hate not being able to join in some things because of weight or size restrictions (which are there for obvious safety reasons, so I'm not about to call "discrimination"). I want to be more comfortable on an airplane. (I'm also not about to demand that they add more room - there really isn't room to add.) I want to hike uphill without getting winded. I'm sorry, but being winded, strained, and uncomfortable is not something I should be "proud" of.

I was very active at the gym last year, and developed great eating habits. Unfortunately, the last six months blew that all to hell, and I can FEEL it.

Thankfully, I've got my gym bag back together, my lost membership card being replaced, and a shiny new iPod armband to make carrying my music more convenient. I've even got that "me time" scheduled on my calendar once again, so it's blocked out.

The eating habits (small meals every couple hours) are going to take a few weeks getting used to again, but with the chaos finally settling, I can put the thought back into it until it becomes automatic once again.

I want me back, dammit.

[BarTopDancer]

Oh, I didn't say quickly. Just effectively. It is certainly not quickly.

Sorry about that. You can edit my post if you want.

[€uroMeinke]

How's your healthy diner, honey?

Delicious! Just like the chef ;)

[innerSpaceman]

Other people may be too busy worrying about their flaws to notice ours.
Hahaha, truer words were never.

It's one thing to take the great advice that no one else is noticing the flaws we obsess over .... but easier to conceptualize that everyone else is too darn busy doing the same thing to ever have time to notice what we think is wrong with us.



Hahaha, love it.



but i'm still leaning towards cosmo surge before springtime on my enormous honker

[BarTopDancer]

but i'm still leaning towards cosmo surge before springtime on my enormous honker

Did that 2 years ago - one of the best decisions I ever made.

[katiesue]

I want me back, dammit.

I feel like me in a fat suit - to be honest. I'd like to get back to being ME.

[CoasterMatt]

I feel like me in a fat suit - to be honest. I'd like to get back to being ME.

That's about where I am lately. I've lost a little bit off the old belly, but overall, I just feel like I'm not quite in the right spot...

[innerSpaceman]

Sheesh, it looks like the first room to build for the LoT Commune should be the Swank Gym.

[Not Afraid]

No gym. Dance studio!

[€uroMeinke]

Sheesh, it looks like the first room to build for the LoT Commune should be the Swank Gym.


Or Latin Dance club since I just saw a commercial that claims the swaying hip action of Latin Dancing is the best exercise there is - and how swank is Tango?

[€uroMeinke]

No gym. Dance studio!

jinx

[SacTown Chronic]

Yoga.

[Prudence]

How much do we beat ourselves up over achieving the weight perfection, though? Photos of my ancestors show them with body types similar to mine. Just a few months ago I did an experiment where I limited my calorie intake to 900/day and was doing regular cardio (via treadmill). I gained weight. And not muscle - my pants were in danger of not fitting. I didn't talk about it because the response is generally that I just didn't try hard enough. That I needed to cut calories further and workout longer (time I didn't have back then).

And this isn't to say wahwahwah poor me I can't do it! But people are so quick to say that it's "simple". And the implication is that anyone who isn't successful is just lazy and undisciplined. Which leads further to the permission to treat anyone overweight as sh1t because we're obviously complete losers who can't handle a simple equation like working off the calories consumed, and who should therefore be stoned in the town square as a warning to others and to rid the world of unsightly blobs.

I've reached a point where I truly don't know what to do. In a couple weeks I'll have time to devote to cooking again and working out - except for stupid foot problems. But what if nothing happens then, either? What do I do? The only info I get from my doc is "eat less". Should I just start starving myself? Should I jog 3 hours a day? And if that's what it "takes" to achieve the mandated figure, and I have to keep that up for the rest of my life, is that really what I want? Is it what I'm obligated to do regardless of my personal preferences, and if I don't I'm bad/evil/unethical/lazy/stupid/fatsmellycow? What if a "good" diet and "moderate" exercise result in maintaining my current weight, but nothing more?

This is all hypothetical at the moment, as I still have a few weeks left before exam time, but I get awfully tired of people pointing fingers at me and declaring that I'm doing it wrong, and that clearly if I wasn't such a complete twatwaffle I could comprehend the simple procedures necessary.

[MouseWife]

Just a few months ago I did an experiment where I limited my calorie intake to 900/day and was doing regular cardio (via treadmill). I gained weight. And not muscle - my pants were in danger of not fitting. I didn't talk about it because the response is generally that I just didn't try hard enough. That I needed to cut calories further and workout longer (time I didn't have back then).




Well, one thing I would recommend is to watch 'The Biggest Loser'. That show motivates me. And, they always have tips.

And, I can tell you what happened when you gained weight. You didn't consume enough calories so your body stored them. I can't esplain' it medically BUT you do have to consume a certain amount of calories a day. Adding exercise to that will burn off calories.

Don't be hard on yourself. But, do go to the website, they might have some tips for you. Good luck.

[blueerica]

I mentioned it in the Super Tuesday thread, but I've been watching Biggest Loser this season. I've never really gotten into it until now (probably because I was far too busy to really watch much TV), and I've gotten caught into the emotional content of the story.

One of the problems a lot of people had were not eating enough calories. I think I go back and forth between too many and then not enough. I wish I had the patience to actually count those damn things. If I got better about metering myself somewhat naturally, that woudl be a good solution. Or if I had a personal chef.

[blueerica]

Damn, I must've caught up on this thread right before MW posted that.

But yes, that's a huge problem for a lot of people, I think

[BarTopDancer]

If you don't eat enough your body goes into starvation mode. Your metabolism will drop and you won't lose weight.

Here (http://weightloss.about.com/od/eatsmart/a/blcalintake.htm) is an about.com link with information on how to calculate how many calories one should eat to maintain and/or lose weight.

Women:
655 + (4.3 x weight in pounds) + (4.7 x height in inches) - (4.7 x age in years)

Men:
66 + (6.3 x weight in pounds) + (12.9 x height in inches) - (6.8 x age in years)

Please note that this formula applies only to adults.

Calculate Activity
Step two: In order to incorporate activity into your daily caloric needs, do the following calculation:

* If you are sedentary : BMR x 20 percent

* If you are lightly active: BMR x 30 percent

* If you are moderately active (You exercise most days a week.): BMR x 40 percent

* If you are very active (You exercise intensely on a daily basis or for prolonged periods.): BMR x 50 percent

* If you are extra active (You do hard labor or are in athletic training.): BMR x 60 percent

Add this number to your BMR.

The result of this formula will be the number of calories you can eat every day and maintain your current weightt. In order to lose weight, you'll need to take in fewer calories than this result.

As you lose weight, you can re-calculate the formula to assess your new BMR.

[tracilicious]

Another thing worth mentioning is that your body needs good fat to lose weight. At least mine does. Your liver has a lot to do with weight loss and the right kind of fats are what keeps it functioning. I find it very hard to drop pounds without half an avocado, or a bunch of olives, or olive oil, or flax oil every day. I learned a lot by reading both Fat Flush Plan and some other book that I can't remember the title of right now that talk about how your internal organs relate to weight loss.

[Disneyphile]

I've reached a point where I truly don't know what to do.Experiment and find out what your body says it wants and needs. ;)

Listen to how you and your body feel after eating or doing something. Does it taste good for a few moments but make you feel like crap for hours and is it worth it? Is an activity boring and repetitive and not making you feel better?

My body responds best to eating every couple hours rather than snacking. And, it's helped me curb cravings, because I still eat whatever I want, in moderation. My body also responds really well to weightlifting, which I've also found out that I enjoy far more than jumping on a "stairmaster" or exercise bike. I never tried much with weights before, because I was concerned it would make me gain numbers. And, it actually has had the opposite effect - building strength while the newly worked muscles keep burning off fat for the next 48 hours, even while I'm sleeping.

But, that's the combination that has worked well for me, without dieting, without deprivation, and without forcing myself to do something I don't want to.

Your body might tell you something completely different.

[MouseWife]

Damn, I must've caught up on this thread right before MW posted that.

But yes, that's a huge problem for a lot of people, I think

:D

I have watched each season. Love it. Did you watch last week? The person who was voted off? I've been dying to ask someone what they thought about that!!!

[alphabassettgrrl]

Losing weight is *not* simple for some people. Pru, I'm sorry people treat you so badly.

[MouseWife]

I think it is a double edged sword~ when you are overweight, you can feel uncomfortable to eat. But, if you don't eat, you won't lose weight.

My friend whom I am walking with, I have to tell her to eat. She tells me how she forgot to eat breakfast, how she ran around doing errands but forgot to eat. I try to eat before we go walking. That way it will give me something to burn.

I know with some people, saying you are hungry in front of them will only invite comments. I recall driving around with my mom, Hubby and I had skipped breakfast in our hurry to get the kids out and then to take her on errands. We kept passing delicious smelling Mexican restaurants. I said 'Oh my gosh, can you smell that?' to which she replied 'That is why you are so fat. You want to eat everything.'

So, it ain't easy.

And, back to looks {and not weight}: noses. *sigh* Let's just say, growing up, our family had the nickname 'The Nose Family'.

I'm just sayin'.

[wendybeth]

I know for a fact that losing weight can be problematic. I never, ever had to diet until I hit my 30's. Never. I did go through a super-skinny (anorexic) phase in my mid-teens, but I snapped out of it within months and never did anything so stupid again. I wore an average size (9/10 juniors) until I had Tori, and I actually got pretty close to that size again after with a bit of work. Well, when I hit around 38 it started to creep up on me, and my sisters as well. Quitting smoking, while a definite plus, also zapped my metabolism and now I'm learning the hard way how weird our systems can become with as we age. :rolleyes: I work just as hard as ever, eat far less than before, and yet I just can't seem to lose anything. My doc says it's just part of getting older, but at the same time tells me that losing 15-20 pounds would be a healthy thing to do. (Yes, I want to choke her when she says that- the last time I said perhaps a little nicotine would rev up my metabolism, and she quickly backpedaled on the preaching). I don't eat sugar, I eat very little bread or fried foods, and I know I seldom exceed 1500 calories a day. I have just become resigned to doing the best I can for as long as I can, and so long as I am doing that nothing anyone says is really going to get to me. (Now, I just have to stop getting on myself....).

[Nephythys]

Honesly it is less about what I weigh (since muscle weighs more than fat anyway) it is about the way I look.

I can handle a few extra pounds if it was not flabby and saggy on my body.

[3894]

How much do we beat ourselves up over achieving the weight perfection, though? Photos of my ancestors show them with body types similar to mine. Just a few months ago I did an experiment where I limited my calorie intake to 900/day and was doing regular cardio (via treadmill). I gained weight.

I'm here to validate this. It's my story, too, and the curse of a super-efficient metabolism.

My doctor told me that I will need to live the rest of my life at 800 cal./day. My granny was like this. In order to stay normal weight, she drank an awful lot of hot water when other people were eating.

On the positive side of things, I just bought myself a dressmaker form. Wanted one for years, just bought it now. I fiddled with the dials, got the mannequin's measurements to match mine, and stepped back. You know, I'll never be on the cover of Vogue (their loss) but now that I see me in 3-D, it ain't so terrible.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Remember, millions of years of evolution guided by scarcity have made it such that we are fat storage machines. Our body is super efficient at storing excess energy, and we crave the foods that are most efficient at providing it. Losing weight is a battle against what our bodies are designed for, so there's no way it's going to be easy.

[blueerica]

:D

I have watched each season. Love it. Did you watch last week? The person who was voted off? I've been dying to ask someone what they thought about that!!!

I don't know whether it would warrant its own thread, since I'm not sure anyone else is really watching it, so I'll just respond right here.

This is my first season of really watching it. I'd watch it periodically, and when I was out here with J, visiting for an entire week. While I was in school, I was working and doing too much to really ensure I'd catch any shows regularly, so I made a point to not get hooked into anything.

That said, I've been watching this season pretty religiously. It's the first reality contestant show that I've watched... never could get hooked into the others. I was part-surprised and part-expected Jackie to get booted off. That team got both 'players,' IMO, and trust issues were bound to happen, sooner or later. I'm not glad, not sad, just sort of amused. But, the biggest 'player' - Mark - around got to stay in the game. The rest aren't so much players, they're competitive. Mark is really going to have to work something out with them to prevent getting dropped. I also wonder if Dan's going to have some serious issues with the entire team.

Guess I'll just have to watch tonight to find out... Barring any national event, there won't be any interruptions this time. :)

[MouseWife]

That is right, the part about the divorced couple was cut out because of the primaries!! Dah!!! {I guess the clip could be on line?}

Mark~dang but he is one lucky MF. He has pissed people off but he does manage to lose the weight and earn immunity.

Jackie~ I hadn't really looked at her as a 'player' {as the fellows who voted her off said, 'This person has really shown us this is a game'}. When the pink team was voted off, I didn't think too much about her walking around with her coffee cup, chatting up the yellow team, telling them who she thought should go.

But, last show, when she decided that Trent should go. Whoa. That wasn't right. She just basically took it upon herself. I was uncomfortable with that. I didn't like how she made them swear and then threw it in their faces. I think they didn't argue with her as she was coming on too strong. She was the one who had lost the least weight.

I am glad to see she kept up the work at home, I think she needed to go home. She probably fell in to the mother hen role, being the only woman on that team as well as Dans' mom.

I think Dan will have some issues but I was proud of the men who told him they knew he would but that they are a team. I hope that he will become more strong without his mom. And, learn that he can do it without her.

Okay, enough of that but I can't wait for tonight. I am addicted to this show.

3894~ That is amazing to have to consume so few calories. It isn't even 10 a.m. and I've already had about half of that.

And, GD you are so right. No matter what we want, the facts are there how our bodies run. {I forget that you ever had a weight problem}

[Ghoulish Delight]

And, GD you are so right. No matter what we want, the facts are there how our bodies run. {I forget that you ever had a weight problem}I've never had a weight problem, but I'm predisposed to it based on my parents. I have been good at catching myself slipping towards a problem and doing something about it short term. But each time, it takes longer to lose the few pounds I put on and would like to take off. So I need to start being serious about managing it now before it becomes a problem.

[MouseWife]

Oh, thanks for esplaining that.

I guess I thought you had an 'problem' because I've seen you post before about losing weight and how you'd done it. I've personally never known you to be overweight, so, I figured if there was something it was prior to any time we'd met.

I guess for some people, it is just management. Catching it before it becomes a problem.

Ah, so your physical activity is not brought about by a desire to lose weight, just to be/stay fit. {I think I've caught you play soccer? or something like it...}

I think that is where I need to work on it. I loved working out, still do...when I get into it. But, getting into it is harder. I think that we do need to have activity each day, the days I don't I feel more tired than on days I do something.

I do look at it as fun...but, getting back into a program isn't easy.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Ah, so your physical activity is not brought about by a desire to lose weight, just to be/stay fit. {I think I've caught you play soccer? or something like it...}
I picked up playing soccer again after a decade+ of not because I love playing soccer. Exercise was a side benefit. I only play once a week, it's not enough to do me much good (as evidenced by my 15 lbs increase over the year that I've been playing).

I guess you could say that desire to lose weight is my motivation in that when I notice myself straying too far above what's been my average weight for a while, it reminds me of my risk of becoming obese and the health problems that go along with it. The health factor is the biggest motivator, but I do admit that it's an image thing as well. I do not like looking fat. When I tend toward overweight, it's very visible in my face. I cringe when I see photos of myself and can see it in my face.


I think that is where I need to work on it. I loved working out, still do...when I get into it. But, getting into it is harder. I think that we do need to have activity each day, the days I don't I feel more tired than on days I do something.

I do look at it as fun...but, getting back into a program isn't easy.

Ain't that the truth. I can't "work out". Any sort of purely exercise-based activity I will not stick to. Whether it's running, swimming, biking, gym exercise, it grow monotonous and I will find excuses to skip it. I wish I had more opportunity to play soccer, that I would stick to as the activity itself is what engages me. But bless the Wii. It's exactly what I needed.

[blueerica]

See, damn it! I want a Wii! ;)

I like participating, but I've found that working out just on a machine allows me the sort of mindless time that I require while benefiting myself with the post exercise endorphins.

While working at 24 Hour Fitness all those years I did in the Long Long Ago, I heard time and time again that it takes 21 days to develop a good habit. I've heard it elsewhere, too. Now, I don't think it means seven days a week of going to the gym, but I've taken it to mean that if you develop a schedule of sorts with the gym, etc, it takes three weeks for it to be solidified, or at least more solid than not. It takes way less time to break it, I've learned, personally. Also, I forget the number of days, but it's less than a week for, say, stopping a strength training regimen, to bring your muscle strength back down to its starting point. I think it's way less than a week, more like 4 days, but I can't remember.

I am finding that my greatest challenge here is the limited amount of workout equipment at my apartment facility. I use it because, without a full time job, I don't feel that I can afford a gym membership at the moment. I don't like the equipment at the facility because, while it provides the basics, it doesn't allow me to pick and choose different workout routines, I don't care for much of the cardio equipment since it messes with my bad knee, and it's a small room and makes me claustrophobic. I am better about it, but anything that comes around that makes me have a reason not to go makes it way too easy to not make the right choice.

[Not Afraid]

I heard time and time again that it takes 21 days to develop a good habit.

That's why rehab is 28 days. ;)

[innerSpaceman]

I don't like the equipment at the facility because, while it provides the basics, it doesn't allow me to pick and choose different workout routines.

Heheh, the choice of equipment is even more limited inside my apartment. But if it weren't there, and I had to go to a gym, my workout would never happen.

As it is, the convenience has allowed me to develop a nice habit of working out 4 days a week, which I stick to pretty well. But I don't do any cardio, bah, because I hate machines for that stuff. The monotony kills me. Even Wii wouldn't work. I need a real, honest-to-goodness activity. I don't skate anymore, which was perfect. And the swimming I do in Spring and Summer is a half-assed substitute.

Still, I'm in better shape now in my mid 40's than I ever was at any other time in my life.




But still just as short. :p

[Ghoulish Delight]

Oh yeah, skating! My dad dug up my old roller blades while cleaning out a closet. Once I get those from him, I may put them to use.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

iSm, I've never thought of your nose as overlarge. Personally, I will miss it if you change it.

Pru, my doctors have told me no less than 1300 ever, and that's if I'm not exercising that day.

DP, I think you and I have similar body responses; it's only ever the small-but-frequent-meals that work for me. But the second I miss one, I get overhungry and then overeat. (And by overeat, I don't mean scarfing lots of unhealthy food, I mean more calories per one meal for my shrunken stomach finds comfortable.)

[Disneyphile]

DP, I think you and I have similar body responses; it's only ever the small-but-frequent-meals that work for me. But the second I miss one, I get overhungry and then overeat. (And by overeat, I don't mean scarfing lots of unhealthy food, I mean more calories per one meal for my shrunken stomach finds comfortable.)Oh, I so know that one! That's how my eating routine got thrown off - my parents always visiting or I'd get caught up on a project and forget to eat, and then BOOM!

[innerSpaceman]

iSm, I've never thought of your nose as overlarge. Personally, I will miss it if you change it.

I'll let you have it in a jar once I'm done with it. :D



I'm not looking to replace my nose with some little pug thing. A slight modification to the Karl Malden bulbousness at the tip is all I'm going for. I have no desire to not look like me. (Though I do have a desire to look just like a taller me.)

[Gemini Cricket]

Just don't come back looking like an electrical outlet or something. You know, like Michael Jackson...

[Not Afraid]

I'm not looking to replace my nose with some little pug thing.

Watch it, Buster, or you'll get a new nose.

[Snowflake]

Watch it, Buster, or you'll get a new nose.

Is Buster getting a nose job as well as the butt job he got yesterday?

[Sohrshah]

I honestly don't care about others' perceptions of my body if they think I'm too fat. However, I do find myself getting irked by people who say to me, "You're fat and beautiful! Be proud!"

I don't give a crap how I look. It's how I feel. And, for me it's more of a physiological feeling, which then affects my emotions, rather than the other way around.


I want me back, dammit.


I couldn't agree more! I want me back, too!

[Sohrshah]

I've been working for DAYS to come up with a good response to this thread. I have a terrible body image. I though about the same of myself at 320 pounds as I did at 215.

I sometimes wonder how my life would have been different if I were slender, but honestly, I don't think I've ever been passed up for a good job or opportunity due to my size. I know that self esteem and normal weight are definitely not mutually exclusive, and I doubt that I'd have been more successful in relationships if I'd been thinner. Or would I? I'm not so young anymore, and there is a part of me that us afraid that I might never have the opportunity to date Mr. "Right", because the intelligent, active, sophisticated, gray-at-the-temples guy of my dreams isn't likely going to give a second thought to a sweet-faced, round bodied pistol like me.

Admittedly, I'm actually nervous hugging really slender people. I'm afraid they must be grossed out by me... and I kind of feel like a different species. I'd like to get more fit - I LOVE being active, and my weight loss goals are based on scuba-diving and horseback riding weight limits more than anything else, but I don't think I'll ever feel THIN. And that's okay. I hope that someday I'll feel beautiful and worthy again. Its been a long long time, and I miss that feeling.

:)

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Still waiting for the Girls of LoT calendar...Sounds like a reason for a beach swanking.

Admittedly, I'm actually nervous hugging really slender people. Next time I see you, you're getting an extra squeeze from me! ;)

[Not Afraid]

How many skinny people do we all actually know? I know LOTS of people but very few of them are skinny. Maybe it's the skinny folks who have something "wrong" with them. ;)

[BarTopDancer]

One day I was shopping for jeans - and was annoyed because no matter where I went, the size I wore seemed to be sold out while there were racks and stacks of size 0s, 2s, 4s, XS and S. Then I realized something. The reason I can never find my size is because other people are buying it too!

The regular world isn't full of heroin chic super models. The regular world is full of curvy, average and above average sized women who are all facing the similar clothing issues. I have yet to meet a woman who loves every single article of clothing they try on.

[Sohrshah]

Next time I see you, you're getting an extra squeeze from me! ;)

Schweet!

[wendybeth]

Lol, BTD! I have bitched for years about being an average size- you can never get anything on sale, and it's damned difficult to find average sized clothing even when it's not on sale. Same with my shoe size- all my friends with little bitty or big clomping feet seem to score at sales, while I count myself lucky if I find anything at regular prices. I recently found one pair- only one in my size- of boots, and they were actually on sale! I felt like I hit the frikken lottery.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

In The Sea by Samantha Hunt, the female narrator is staring at an albino kid, who says to her, “I can see you, you jerk.” Shortly after, she is looking critically at herself in a mirror, when she suddenly thinks to herself, “I can see you, you jerk.”

When we judge our own appearance, we’re usually jerks. Staring and hating are a kind of vain practice in which most of us take a perverse pleasure.

I like the way I look. I despise the way I look. It phases in and out like the shape-shifting moon. Good years, bad years. Good months, bad months. And so on. Some days it can depend on the time of day. Some days a change of outfit can fix the frown-at-self syndrome, sometimes a better hair day. Some days it’s nothing at all; I just wake up feeling good about myself. Some days I can look at a lingerie catalog and only see the awesome unmentionables. Some days I look at the same catalog and all I see are “perfect” women, making me feel unmentionable. In other words, some days are better than others.

When I complain about such and such flaw (most often something related to acne problems or spider veins), I often hear this in response: “No one cares about that! No one would even notice.”

Well, I care and I notice. The skin blemishes, the spider veins on my thighs, the prematurely grey hair (the frizzy horror!) – these are all things I’m more likely to notice in other people who are similarly afflicted. I don’t wear short skirts without hose or tights because I’m self-conscious. And if I see a woman around my age with exposed spider or varicose veins, I don’t think, “Rock on, sister, for not letting them get the best of you!” I actually think, “Ew.”

Unkind? Perhaps. Sure. My personal baggage which I consider a burden, not an excuse. What I most despise about my physical appearance I do covet in others: clear skin, sexy stems (no veins, muscle definition!), and because I began graying early (17), usually people who have luxuriously long, naturally colored locks. Fortunately for those I covet, I am not a serial killer. I do, however, have a habit of staring. (To the pretty red-head who frequently finds herself on the 2 bus with me during our morning commute, I apologize.)

I’m admittedly shallow. I may have my own take on beauty, style and general aesthetics, but I definitely have a take. Certainly what appeals to me doesn’t appeal to everyone. (For instance, I dig a man with a lot of body hair. It's the opposite opinion I usually hear voiced.) And “flaws” aren’t deal-breakers. It may take months to work up my courage, but I will eventually take a skinny dip in front of friends, flaws and all. I’ve worked up the courage to assume that what’s flawed about my appearance is balanced out by what’s attractive, etc. And it goes the same for other people. I don’t look at someone who also has acne problems and think, “How ugly!” But I do notice they have acne. And then I stop noticing. And that is a greater kindness than I afford myself. I can get past what I perceive as a physical flaw in someone else a heck of a lot faster than I can get past my own.

I don’t get down about my weight so much, but again, I have my bad days. Like most women, I hate my thighs and if there is a hell designed especially for me it would certainly involve jean shopping. Mostly, with regards to weight, lots of different body types look good in the nude, in my opinion. And in clothes, it’s a matter of dressing well for whatever body type you have. Something similar could be said about aging. Work with what you have and don’t wish desperately you were something, or someone, else.

There are beauty stereotypes and their blissful exceptions, and I generally pick and choose from both when I’m either attracted to or appreciating someone’s appearance. Same goes for how I perceive myself. It might be nice to have a heart-shaped face with high cheekbones and dainty features, but then I wouldn’t see my loved ones when I look in the mirror. I jokingly curse my parents for their genetic betrayal (both struggled with acne at one point or another in their life; my dad is prematurely grey; my mother has bunions, etc.…), but after they’re gone I’ll need only look in the mirror to see my loved ones: The shape of my Dad’s nose. My mother’s eye color and freckles. My grandmother died when I was five, but there she is in my crooked smile.

At my worst, I let what I don't like about my appearance turn me into a gigantic, self-pitying bore. But it’s been a long time since I’ve felt that way, thank goodness, and for the most part a healthy dose of self-confidence makes for the best kind of cover-up.

These days I’m feeling more “at my best" with regards to my appearance, my life, the general goodness of it all. And though I will still waste time mulling over my perceived flaws, I’ve gotten a lot better at saying, “I can see you, you jerk.” Sometimes I'm even able to convince myself that ugly is the new pretty. Why shouldn't spider veins be the new heroine chic? Heh.

[CoasterMatt]

A jerk at work today told me "You wouldn't cut it in Florida, they don't do all this jabbering with the customers, your line is too slow" - Interesting, because I've been VIDEOTAPED by the Florida management to show their ticket sellers what GUEST SERVICE is about. I so wanted to respond with "Yeah, you're right, I don't work well with Neanderthals". :evil:

[Sohrshah]

Very beautifully written, 1812!

Applaud your skinny dipping courage. The idea makes me cringe!

[Disneyphile]

I'm not so young anymore, and there is a part of me that us afraid that I might never have the opportunity to date Mr. "Right", because the intelligent, active, sophisticated, gray-at-the-temples guy of my dreams isn't likely going to give a second thought to a sweet-faced, round bodied pistol like me.
Apparently, you haven't heard of this place yet. ;)

http://www.butterflylounge.com/

I went a couple times back in my single days. :)

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Honestly? I found my "intelligent, active, sophisticated, gray-at-the-temples guy of my dreams" at a personals web site for men looking to date plus-sized women. There were many frogs kissed before he came along, but he's definitely proof that truly lovely, kind, and witty men can be interested in larger women.

By the way, EH, your post was just lovely. You're right - confidence is the best cover-up (but HWC doesn't hurt, either...;) )

[Not Afraid]

EH has the hottest bod on LoT (in case you all were wondering).

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

EH has the hottest bod on LoT (in case you all were wondering).

:blush:

You're not so bad yourself, by golly. And your skin...I do covet thy skin. Ooh-lah-lah.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

By the way, EH, your post was just lovely. You're right - confidence is the best cover-up (but HWC doesn't hurt, either...;) )

Visible dirty mojo for "HWC" my lusty dear. [grin]

[Strangler Lewis]

EH has the hottest bod on LoT (in case you all were wondering).

Just the challenge I needed to kick it back in gear!

[Ghoulish Delight]

The scale says I'm losing weight. My belt says I'm losing weight. My wife says I'm losing weight.

All I see is the 10 lbs of gut that's still there and the spare tire. Sigh.

[SacTown Chronic]

This thread inspired me to do naked yoga in front of a full length mirror this morning....you know, for an honest assesment of the naked me. "Kinda gross" would be a good way to describe the experience.


Though this pose (http://z.about.com/d/yoga/1/8/4/2/boat.jpg), done while facing the mirror, was good for a laugh, ifyouknowwhatImean.

[Nephythys]

Clothes are a nightmare sometimes- for me is one thing- for my 8 year old daughter is another.

She loves the clothes at Limited Too- expensive girlie clothes. She's tall and has a little chub around the middle- typical kid. She swims, she's active- could eat better but is in a severe picky phase- and the clothes that SHOULD fit her- don't.

She's 8- should fit into a size 7-8 usually- not so in those stores- oh no, there she fits a 10, or even a 12-14!!!! Oh it may be a bit loose but it is the only way to get her something that will fit for any length of time. We bought a pair pf pants- size 8- wore them for less than a month before growth and a couple washings made them too small.

WTH????

Great body image she learns there!

[MouseWife]

The scale says I'm losing weight. My belt says I'm losing weight. My wife says I'm losing weight.

All I see is the 10 lbs of gut that's still there and the spare tire. Sigh.

Same here. I haven't lost anything to write home about but the Hubster says he notices it is 'shifting'. Well, okay...

But, the gut. I think there is only so much that can be worked off by walking/riding my recumbant bike and dieting. At some point {which I am not ready for yet....} I will have to add to my day the 'floor' exercises. This are the sets of sit ups, leg lifts, crunches, etc. Not so appealing to me yet.....

Talking about stores and sizes, I noticed when I tried on clothes at Lane Bryant and then the others, I was able to fit a size or two down at LB. That was nice.

Even shopping at Target, I have to take into account where I am looking at clothes; if I am in the Jr. section, go way larger. If I am in the womens, I can stick with my size.

Otherwise, it hurts soooo much to pick up a shirt accidentally in the Jr. section, bring it home and have it fit like a sausage skin.

I loved your post, Eliza. :snap:

[Morrigoon]

Since Target's "plus size" section is approximately half a rack, mixed in with their maternity section, and since all the cute clothes turn out to be maternity stuff... I don't even shop clothes at Target.

And some choad at Walmart thinks that Walmart should be more like Target. Fvck him/her.

[madmonkeygirl]

Only things i ever shop for at Target were Bon Jovi tshirts awhile back when they had like 5 different ones. Which each one with different sizing of course. Two i got a Large in and fit just fine the rest XL so go figure. I did buy a pair of cloth summer pink shorts to wear while lounging around or to the pool instead of denim jeans i wear all the time but they are big now that i've lost weight and inches so...plus i was able to find a bathing suit at Target last year on the first try (very unusal for me).

[MouseWife]

Yeah, the selection of Plus sizes at Target sucks. I had much better luck at Wal-Mart.

But, everyone buys maternity clothes. Even the small women, they buy the size small or x-s. They are so cute. And, they get marked down so cheaply. I actually find it rare to see someone who is actually pregnant buying maternity clothes. Seriously.

I love those t-shirts at Target. But, I also love the line of T's that WalMart has, much less expensive and a big selection.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

I actually shop at Target a little. I think you might have to go to the right Target to find good plus-sized clothes (just like, say, you might find a PayLess that more regularly stocks wide shoes than other stores do.)

Oh, my. I just acknowledged that I shop at Target and PayLess. What a Fashionista. (Though, I also shop at Torrid, and that place ROCKS.)

[libraryvixen]

I actually shop at Target a little. I think you might have to go to the right Target to find good plus-sized clothes (just like, say, you might find a PayLess that more regularly stocks wide shoes than other stores do.)

Oh, my. I just acknowledged that I shop at Target and PayLess. What a Fashionista. (Though, I also shop at Torrid, and that place ROCKS.)

It's okay H, me too!! ;)

[MouseWife]

Well at least you are shopping....I haven't been in ages. :(

What I am at least hoping is to get back into some of the clothes I'd bought beforeI gained a few pounds.

[Ponine]

Oh, my. I just acknowledged that I shop at Target and PayLess. What a Fashionista. (Though, I also shop at Torrid, and that place ROCKS.)
And that just mystifies me. YOu find the cutest stuff at Torrid, and nothing there fits me.
<sigh>

[Morrigoon]

Torrid does rock. There's one at Irvine Spectrum :)

I've noticed though that their clothes have gone a bit "mainstream". They used to be the plus-sized Hot Topic. Much less edge these days. Still cute stuff though.

[alphabassettgrrl]

My grandmother died when I was five, but there she is in my crooked smile.
...
These days I’m feeling more “at my best" with regards to my appearance, my life, the general goodness of it all. And though I will still waste time mulling over my perceived flaws, I’ve gotten a lot better at saying, “I can see you, you jerk.” Sometimes I'm even able to convince myself that ugly is the new pretty. Why shouldn't spider veins be the new heroine chic? Heh.

I love how you see your loved ones in your own face! I get that. I have my dad's features and my mother's coloring. It's nice to be able to remember family. While I may not always like my features, they are mine honestly, and I know I'm not the postman's kid. :) Other days (like you say) I can smile at myself in the mirror. I've been trying to be more deliberate about smiling at myself. Approving energy, not criticism.

The scale says I'm losing weight. My belt says I'm losing weight. My wife says I'm losing weight.

All I see is the 10 lbs of gut that's still there and the spare tire. Sigh.

Cut yourself some slack! Be kind to yourself.

[BarTopDancer]

I shop at Target and Kohls. Haven't been to Payless in a long time because nothing ever fits me. There is one by my office. I should try that one sometime soon.

[Not Afraid]

Target had some cute stuff. It never fits right, but it looks good on a hanger.

[MouseWife]

Too funny, NA, I have thought the same thing. I have thought some things were sooooo cute!!! But, on me? No way.

One dress so reminded me of a 'Mrs. Robinson' dress, I wanted it sooo bad! But, I don't think all clothes are meant for all people.

[lindyhop]

My weight has been increasing little by little each year. It's so hard for me to stop snacking (especially on sweets when I'm at work) and getting more active is such a struggle. I finally got myself back to the gym after the holidays only to discover that the weight machines I knew how to use had all been replaced with intimidating new ones. I'll probably have to hire a personal trainer to show me how to use them.

Last fall I decided to make a skirt for Halloween and went shopping for patterns for the first time in probably 20 years. What a shock when I compared my measurements to the sizes on the patterns. I don't wear a size 20 but that's what fit my measurements. I can buy mediums at J. Jill but of course I know I'm not a medium just because that's what the label says.

I have more "body" issues with the idea of age and aging. And I'm still thinking about what I want to say about that.

[alphabassettgrrl]

I'm kind of having aging issues, too, but that's just what happens. I intend to age as gracefully as I can, and hope to love myself along the way. I have no intention of having a mask for a face as the botox ladies do, nor of having surgeons carve me up in a futile attempt to not look my age.

My body has served me well, and while I am getting wrinkles, the alternative was to avoid smiling and laughing. That's not going to happen.

[BarTopDancer]

I've been 40lbs lighter than I am now at my lightest. I've been 40lbs heavier than I am now at my heaviest. During these two time periods I thought I was fat, and ugly. Didn't care how I looked, or dressed. I was not comfortable with myself. Today, I am not comfortable with what the scale says, but I am comfortable in my skin. I have clothes that fit and look cute. I know I'm not ugly. If I were to wear a skirt it will be to my knees. I like my calves, hate my thighs and the fat in my stomach and saddlebags has to go. I feel the extra weight in my knees and back. I don't like that. There are health issues staring me in the face as well. Frankly, medical studies that show that women with excess weight/fat in certain places are at higher disposition for heart disease scare the crap out of me.

-30lbs is my healthy goal. It's a healthy weight for me and will put me at a healthy BMI. Where that goal sits on my list of goals is another question.