RIP in 2009

[Snowflake]

Her name was Rappe, she was asking for it.

Um, no, she was not. Virginia Rappe was not only a hapless victim who died by causes still unknown (beyond a ruptured bladdar and a massive infection that killed her). She was also one of the first in a long line of "blame the victim" defense. Much like Lana Clarkson deserved being shot by Phil Spector.

What happened in Arbuckle's room for those 15 minutes will never be known, but Rappe was not a whore nor a drunk who deserved to die.

A friend of mine has been researching the Arbuckle trials for the last five years. Poor Virginia got not only a bad "rappe" she ended up very dead.

Arbuckle and his cronies at the party, (and the resoident doctor of the St. Francis) hotel shuttled her off to another room (1227) so as not to cast a pall on the festivities. Not one of them, Arbuckle included, inquire about herafter she fell ill. Only one person, the person she arrived with stayed with her until she was then taken to a local hospital a few blocks away on Sutter Street. Whereupon she had the ultimate bad taste as a guest in party pooping, to die.

Arbuckle's crack defense team then took the opportunity to sully her reputation for the sake of their client. And so it was writ.

Just to clarify things, GD. :)

[Ghoulish Delight]

Ummm, yeah, I know. Rappe--rape, purely a spelling joke.

[Alex]

Nice save you misogynist!

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I'm firmly with Lashbear on this, great post by him. I don't know if anyone has read about Lewis Carroll but it was a very similar case. A man who liked being a child rather than an adult and had not-very-appropriate relationships with children. In both cases I believe that they did not actually touch the kids.

Even so, I'd never say "he wasn't convicted therefore he was innocent". I have to say that sounds ridiculous to me. There are plenty of wrong verdicts in court cases because they are conducted by human beings and are fallible.

I feel nothing but pity for these poor men regarding their inability to let go of childish things. I feel much more pity for those that have the same problems and aren't brightly shining genius millionaires.

BTW, Morrigoon makes a great point about not wanting to line the wallet of a man who at the very least seems unstable and at the worst may have harmed children. The Michael Vick comparison is pretty apt as well.

As others have said, their legacy is mixed, and that's the way it should be, as it's the truth, no matter how you look at it. MJ was a messed up person. Now that he's gone, we can celebrate the gifts he gave us, and not be concerned that he will cause any harm to anyone, anymore.

[Morrigoon]

So one of the blogs I follow belongs to a theatrical costumer, and she pointed out today that Michael Jackson actually contributed to the design (and patent) of a theatrical device/footwear (http://www.google.com/patents?id=MAUgAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA3&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=1_1#PPA1,M1). Thought I'd share. Apparently it was used in the Smooth Criminal video. (I haven't pulled it up to confirm)

edit: Yep, a little over 7 minutes into it

[BarTopDancer]

As others have said, their legacy is mixed, and that's the way it should be, as it's the truth, no matter how you look at it. MJ was a messed up person. Now that he's gone, we can celebrate the gifts he gave us, and not be concerned that he will cause any harm to anyone, anymore.

This best sums up my feelings on it.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Interesting article (http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/06/26/michael.jackson.internet/index.html) on the toll his death took on the internet yesterday.

[Tref]

Um, no, she was not. Virginia Rappe was not only a hapless victim who died by causes still unknown (beyond a ruptured bladdar and a massive infection that killed her). She was also one of the first in a long line of "blame the victim" defense. Much like Lana Clarkson deserved being shot by Phil Spector.

I do not think it is fair to compare Arbuckle with Spector. For one, Arbuckle was found to be not guilty and by no less then three separate juries.

To quote one such Arbuckle jury, "Acquital is not enough for R.A. We feel a grave injustice has been done him and there was not the slightest proof to connect him in any way with the commission of any crime."

[Gn2Dlnd]

Wow. There were only 3 posts commenting on Farrah Fawcett's death, before being utterly eclipsed by 12 pages, so far, commenting on Michael Jackson's.

I loved this image used in the story linked to by MBC:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/gn2dlnd/artjacksonfailwhaleraulorozco.gif

[Snowflake]

I do not think it is fair to compare Arbuckle with Spector. For one, Arbuckle was found to be not guilty and by no less then three separate juries.

To quote one such Arbuckle jury, "Acquital is not enough for R.A. We feel a grave injustice has been done him and there was not the slightest proof to connect him in any way with the commission of any crime."


Arbuckle's attorneys wrote the statement, apparently for jury #3. According to my friend's reserach on the subject. Regardless, Arbuckle was screwed, too and suffered for the remaining years of his life.

I never said a crime was done with regard to Arbuckle. We will never know what happened in the room of 1219 for the 15 or so minutes Arbuckle and Rappe were in there. All evidence points to the fact she was ill and Arbuckle testified at the Grand Jury that he was helping her as she was ill. What caused her internal injuries nobody will ever really know. She was painted in the press as nothing more than a bad girl and ultimately as one who did not deserve to live. Yellow journalism and attorney's working to save their client from a manslaughter charge.

My point about Arbuckle and Spector was the defense use of blame the victim. Lana Clarkson was a person of quistionable character if you read some of the witness commentary for the defense, ergo, she deserved to die. Rappe was treated the same. That was my only point in referring to the case. If I confused, sorry!

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Wow. There were only 3 posts commenting on Farrah Fawcett's death, before being utterly eclipsed by 12 pages, so far, commenting on Michael Jackson's. FF was before my time...

[cirquelover]

I loved Farrah as a girl, my brother even had the infamous poster. I watched Charlie's angels but prefered Jacqueline Smith as my fav angel, probably because I thought I looked more like her. I did not like it when Cheryl Ladd took Farrah's place, then I missed her on the show.

For me Michael Jackson will always be that sweet faced little boy who could sing like an angel with the Jackson 5. I also remember the solo song he did after that about his beloved pet dying, my only dog had just died so I related to it.

I'm just saddened that a lot of my 70's icons seem to be dying off. It makes me feel very old indeed!

[Strangler Lewis]

I don't know if anyone has read about Lewis Carroll but it was a very similar case. A man who liked being a child rather than an adult and had not-very-appropriate relationships with children. In both cases I believe that they did not actually touch the kids.


"I love children, I'd never hurt one" is a common enough refrain among child abusers. As to Lewis Carroll, who knows? We err on both sides, probably, being unwilling to assume the worst about nice respectable people and all too willing to assume the worst about mild eccentrics.

As to not wanting to let go of childhood, I think we all have our ways of doing that to some extent or another. But if you're going to talk like a toddler, walk up and down the street with a pony and invite little kids to come in your backyard and bury you in the sand, you can't blame people for what they think of you.

[Moonliner]

Interesting...

There is already talk of setting up Neverland Ranch for tours much like Graceland.

What do you think? Would you go?

[Chernabog]

I think CP makes a good point. Yes, he was a troubled man, mostly by product of his environment. But, to hear people flat out call him a pedophile, freak, etc. based on media hype is just crass and ignorant.

I would like to point out, as others have done, that OJ was convicted in the civil trial, but not the criminal trial. There was only a criminal trial for MJ, which has an elevated burden of proof. Would your opinion have changed if he was convicted in a civil suit?

In his later years (i.e. the last 15ish), he was seriously mentally disturbed and creepy as all getout. When I said that many people (me included) would most remember him as such isn't all that surprising -- as Morrigoon pointed out, we lived through it. There were tons of mentally disturbed people that we revere today as creative geniuses, but we didn't have to live through their particular insanity. If you lived in the same city as crazy alcoholic/drug addicted Edgar Allan Poe, I'd venture to guess that the crazy alcoholic/drug addict behaviour that you observed would overshadow the genius that later generations have viewed him as.

So I think that yes, the next generation will mostly "remember" MJ as an innovative musical genius. But not by the people that through half their lives, MJ was a crazy freakin mofo.

That's just my 2 cents about the matter, but my opinion is not always "correct" either ;)

[CoasterMatt]

Interesting...

There is already talk of setting up Neverland Ranch for tours much like Graceland.

What do you think? Would you go?
Already been. Don't think I'd go back.

[Snowflake]

Already been. Don't think I'd go back.

No coaster, right?

[Ghoulish Delight]

I would like to point out, as others have done, that OJ was convicted in the civil trial, but not the criminal trial. There was only a criminal trial for MJ, which has an elevated burden of proof. Would your opinion have changed if he was convicted in a civil suit?
Especially considering that the $22 million payoff in 1994 was all but a civil suit conviction. One that meant the family would not testify in the criminal trial that was going on and had to be scrapped for lack of evidence (i.e., the family not testifying). The only criminal trial that went to jury was in 2005, well after the initial accusations, accusations that, were they baseless, probably wouldn't have required $22 million go make go away.

[Strangler Lewis]

Many thought it was unfair that OJ had to endure the civil trial after being acquitted in the criminal trial. However, double jeopardy doesn't work that way.

Had there never been a civil trial, I'm sure we all still have had our opinions based on what we heard at the trial and in the news about OJ's guilt. All an acquittal really means for sure is that an accused doesn't have to go to prison, he can still vote, own a firearm, and be considered for positions for which a felony conviction might be a bar. However, no prospective employer would have to ignore what they heard at the trial. And no prospective social acquaintance would have to ignore it either.

[lashbear]

But if you're going to talk like a toddler, walk up and down the street with a pony and invite little kids to come in your backyard and bury you in the sand, you can't blame people for what they think of you.
So.. I should stop doing it ?

Interesting...

There is already talk of setting up Neverland Ranch for tours much like Graceland.

What do you think? Would you go?
They'd have to install FastPass for sure !! those flat rides have low capacity.

So I think that yes, the next generation will mostly "remember" MJ as an innovative musical genius. But not by the people that through half their lives, MJ was a crazy freakin mofo.
Hey, speak for yourself - I'm an old bugger and lived through it all too, remember? :p

and just wondering (no, really) why do people have to think of him as only one OR the other, can't you remember him as a crazy person who was ALSO an innovative musical genius? (and I don't think he ever FO'd his MO, so that ephitet doesn't apply, either.)

[innerSpaceman]

Oh, I definitely think of him as a crazy musical talent. He's not any sort of "genius" in my book, but maybe that's because I was meh about his style of music, for the most part.

Being incredibly popular does not make him a "genius." I suppose that criteria would make James Cameron a genius filmmaker for directing the world's most popular film. Doesn't wash.

So an incredibly talented, bizarrely eccentric, mentally disturbed, likely pedophiliac person is how I will remember him.

[Chernabog]

Yes, lashbear it is a "both/and" rather than an "either/or". I'm just not going to remember him as the person he was during the first 15 years of my life and conveniently dismiss who he was during the past 16.

[Tref]

Not a lot of love in the room for MJ. No doubt the man had his demons, perhaps more then any one person deserved. We can debate if Jackson was a genius or not but there should be no argument that he was immensely talented and creative. His stamp will be on popular culture for as long as there is popular culture (and stamps). Michael Jackson is Elvis. Michael Jackson is The Beatles. Michael Jackson is the 1980s. His influence on dance is incalculable. Just watch an episode of So You Think You Can Dance and tell me if I am wrong. If Michael had done nothing but this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex30DYwQlHU), I'd say he was worthy of inclusion on any list of greats. I do not have a single MJ song on my itunes, but that is a mistake I will correct. I'll miss the guy. I really will.

[Kevy Baby]

For anyone interested, VH1 is playing MJ videos all weekend

[Not Afraid]

I honestly am more saddened by Fawcett's passing than MJ's.

[JWBear]

I'm more saddened by what's still happening in Iran.

[Alex]

Dude, let's focus on the important things. Celebrities are dying left and right! If this keeps up we'll soon be all out.

[Kevy Baby]

Now that I have the time to do so, I will post my thoughts on MJ

Creatively, he was brilliant. Some of his songs and musical messages are actually very deep and touching emotionally. Yes, you can find lyrics and messages otherwise, but much of his music was transformative. And as we have been watching his videos this morning, I am reminded of what a great dancer he was.

But for many, all of that is superseded by his personal life.

He was eccentric. And there are allegations and what appears to be damning circumstantial evidence that he had inappropriate contact with children. I've had my doubts over the years and have often thought there were just too many allegations for there not to be a kernel of truth to the stories.

But in thinking about his life and talking about it with others, there are a lot of factors to look at. For starters, there have been a lot of evidence and stories of the father (Joseph) being very abusive and pushing his children way too hard.

Next, MJ became a huge star when he was just 10 years old and has been in the spotlight ever since. Yes, some people have come through this same kind of upbringing without issues, but it is not an easy way to grow up. Basically, MJ never really had a childhood. Consequently, he spent the rest of his life (or at least a big chunk of it) looking to be a child. Not consciously - just a way for the psyche to cope.

I suspect that there may very well have been incidents of what society would definitely consider inappropriate. However, I don't believe that there was sexual contact. I believe it was just a hurt boy was simply trying to find his lost childhood. I doubt there was anything more than what any children would be doing (as in: no sexual contact). Yes, it was probably inappropriate and illegal, but nothing like what has been portrayed in the media and in the minds of most.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

^ I pretty much agree with all of this.

[innerSpaceman]

Please forgive my ignorance, but did MJ write his own material?

I never cared enough to find out, but he always seemed "merely" a performer to me. Singer, great dancer. But maybe something about him not playing an instrument always gave me the impression he was of the old, old school that simply sang tunes penned by other people.


I liked a handful of his songs ... and might like a few more but for having never heard much of his non-hit stuff. Is he the writer? Some of it? Most of it? None?

[Ghoulish Delight]

Yes, Jackson was himself a songwriter.

[Alex]

I don't know which songs he wrote and didn't but I did see mention somewhere in the recent coverage that he is in the Songwriters Hall of Fame (no idea how prestigious that is).

[Ghoulish Delight]

While he didn't write everything he did, he did write a fair amount. 4 of the 12 tacks on Thriller, 9 of the 11 on Bad. He was definitely a main contributor to his own work.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

He also co-wrote "We are the World" with Lionel Richie.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Yeah, that's his most prominent song writing credit. I don't love it as a song, but I get why it's respected like it is. Much like All You Need Is Love. Right songs for the right time.

[Not Afraid]

Is it bad for me to wish someone else would die so the talk of MJ will stop?

[3894]

Is it bad for me to wish someone else would die so the talk of MJ will stop?

Hey, we could. not. take. it. any more with the tv coverage last night.

[Not Afraid]

I'm glad I don't watch TV! It was enough to hear NPR talking to Spike Lee about MJ today.

[katiesue]

I had no TV until just now. I've at least missed the worst of it.

[Alex]

Or so you think. Just wait for the ****storm when it is learned that OJ was his demerol source.

[innerSpaceman]

I've let the LoT be my only MJ input. So not overloaded in the least.


Oh, except that two of my friends el jayed about it. Including Bryan, who dressed as Captain EO for last Halloween. I did not realize it was the culmination of a several week MJ mania on his part.

[innerSpaceman]

DJ spun a bit of Jackson Five and Michael Jackson at the cemetery screening tonight. The MJ tune just before showtime got EVERYONE up and dancing. It was touching and awesome.


But Ghoulish Delight was right .... we were in a cemetery, so how could you NOT play Thriller???

[BarTopDancer]

WTF universe?

Billy Mays died. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090628/ap_on_re_us/us_obit_billy_mays_3)

[Ghoulish Delight]

Wow. Just, wow.

And to make Mays' death a little weirder, it turns out that yesterday he was on a plane which blew out its front tire on landing. No injuries reported, but if it turns out Mays dies of a heart attack or something similar, you have to wonder if someone the stress from that combined with his usual high-strung state had anything to do with it.

[Alex]

His son's twitter stream (http://twitter.com/YoungBillyMays).

The marvels of our modern age. Getting to participate directly in the grief of people we don't actually know.

[Tref]

His son's twitter stream (http://twitter.com/YoungBillyMays).

The marvels of our modern age. Getting to participate directly in the grief of people we don't actually know.

Or care about?

[Ghoulish Delight]

Interesting. After the hard landing, Mays said that stuff fell and hit him on the head. Wonder if that had anything to do with it.

It's weird. We've been watching Pitchmen so I suddenly have been seeing Billy Mays oin TV a lot, as well as his son. Had this happened before a few months ago I would have hardly taken notice, but now it seems I oddly care a bit more.

[BarTopDancer]

It's weird. We've been watching Pitchmen so I suddenly have been seeing Billy Mays oin TV a lot, as well as his son. Had this happened before a few months ago I would have hardly taken notice, but now it seems I oddly care a bit more.

That's how I feel too.

I do wonder if he had a concussion from the stuff that hit him.

[Snowflake]

I'm sure he was a lovely man, and from what I understand, in real life he sounded nothing like the pitchman for the infomercials. Nothing ever made me hit the mute faster than the voice that was silenced today. I feel for his family, but I also feel a sense of relief.

[Andrew]

Interesting. After the hard landing, Mays said that stuff fell and hit him on the head. Wonder if that had anything to do with it. I'm sure the autopsy will check for head trauma as well as DVT (http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/tc/deep-vein-thrombosis-topic-overview), which can be caused by microscopic seat-pitch on commercial airlines. I can't help but wonder why he was flying commercial anyway, since (according to a recent "Pitchmen" episode) he and Sullivan had just bought a private jet.

It's weird. We've been watching Pitchmen so I suddenly have been seeing Billy Mays oin TV a lot, as well as his son. Had this happened before a few months ago I would have hardly taken notice, but now it seems I oddly care a bit more.

That's how I feel too.

Same here. I watched the first episode because when I saw the preview spot I was amazed that anyone would do a show about these guys, but was almost immediately hooked. Mays and Sullivan actually seem to be good guys who do their job well and believe in the products they sell. Whether or not I would actually buy anything they pitch, I respect it.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Another Pitchmen watcher here, and I feel real sadness for his family.

[Moonliner]

I guess God needed a pitchman. You can count me in as a closet pitchmen watcher.


I can't help but wonder why he was flying commercial anyway, since (according to a recent "Pitchmen" episode) he and Sullivan had just bought a private jet.

I see many possible reasons: This was a personal trip, the "jet" is just puffery for show and not really used regularly, Sully was using it, etc....

[Ghoulish Delight]

And more than likely they charter the plane for business, I doubt they actually bought it, it's just not a particularly cost effective option.

[Alex]

Mays and Sullivan actually seem to be good guys who do their job well and believe in the products they sell. Whether or not I would actually buy anything they pitch, I respect it.

I semi enjoyed the couple episodes I saw but I pretty much treated it like an infomercial for infomercials. As such I just kind of assume that the "personal" stuff shown is just as likely to be a performance as not.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

As such I just kind of assume that the "personal" stuff shown is just as likely to be a performance as not.True, and a lot of the "fights" were obviously staged. Even so, his son was working side by side with them on nearly every product shoot. There was an episode where they visited Billy Mays' father and showed one of his (kinda wacky) product ideas. The crappy show wasn't able to hide the fact that this family is pretty closely knit, and that they all worked together.

[Not Afraid]

I have no idea who this person is, but reading about the plane incident makes me think of Natasha Richardson.

[Moonliner]

His son's twitter stream (http://twitter.com/YoungBillyMays).

The marvels of our modern age. Getting to participate directly in the grief of people we don't actually know.

And then there is Billy's final tweet:


Just had a close call landing in Tampa. The tires blew out upon landing. Stuck in the plane on the runway. You can always count on US Air

[lashbear]

if it turns out Mays dies of a heart attack or something similar, you have to wonder if someone the stress from that combined with his usual high-strung state had anything to do with it.
Of course not !!! He's a Celebrity, therefore his death must be related to any or all of the prescription drugs he was on at the time of death. I call for an autopsy to see if he was on pain killers. Or sleeping tablets. It must be that, cos it can't possibly be natural causes. Who can we blame if it's natural causes ?!?! There's no-one for the family to sue if it's only natural causes.


sorry, just tired of all the media hype over the MJ painkiller thing. Maybe we're getting more of it than the USA, but boy, are they really pushing that bandwagon or what?

[scaeagles]

There is no way you are getting more of it than in the USA. It's freakin' EVERYWHERE and non stop.

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

And the carnage continues: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090628/ap_en_ce/us_obit_storm

[Morrigoon]

Funny, when I clicked the link it said Obit Storm, and I assumed it was an article about how many deaths there had been

[Jazzman]

There is no way you are getting more of it than in the USA. It's freakin' EVERYWHERE and non stop.

No kidding! We had Chinese tonight and my fortune cookie said, "Mama-se, mama-sa, ma-ma-coo-sa!" There's no escaping it! :D




Just kidding, by the way.

[Tref]

And the carnage continues

What carnage? She was an 87 year old woman.

sorry, just tired of all the media hype over the MJ painkiller thing.

What hype? Until recently, I was not even aware of what these little pills could do to someone's heart. I am quite sure I am not alone.

[Strangler Lewis]

What caught my eye about the Gale Storm article was that it actually used the word "oater," which I've never seen outside of a crossword puzzle.

[Gn2Dlnd]

As in, "Peeyew! What's that oater? I think yer horse needs a bath!"

[Gn2Dlnd]

I don't know about the media hype. I don't seem to be getting much of it at all. Then again, I stopped watching most television news years ago, somehow I still manage to know what's going on from the internet. My DVR keeps me from seeing most commercial breaks on the shows I watch, and, try as I may to find a radio station in L.A. playing MJ's music, it's just not there. Since I don't generally listen to commercial radio, save the occasional 10 minutes on the AM news stations, again, I'm not being bombarded. I love my ipod for exactly that reason. I can download the podcasts that are interesting to me, and the rest of the time I have 8,000 some-odd pieces of music to listen to. What do they say, "There are no victims, only volunteers?" I know my TV has an off button.

[lashbear]

well, you probably need to try to watch Australian TV without the aid of DVR one time and see how many newsbreaks about him there are, and how many references to him people in other tv shows are making. I expect to see stuff about him if I'm watching the news, but not in other programs.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

well, you probably need to try to watch Australian TV without the aid of DVR one time...Um, WHAT? No DVR? That really is a barbaric country you've got down there.

My heart goes out to all of you who have not yet been shown The Way.

[flippyshark]

Another (minor) celebrity death: Fred Travelena (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090629/ap_on_en_tv/us_obit_travalena) - I remember him mostly from talk show appearances in the 70s and 80s, but he was a good impressionist.

[Strangler Lewis]

Another (minor) celebrity death: Fred Travelena (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090629/ap_on_en_tv/us_obit_travalena) - I remember him mostly from talk show appearances in the 70s and 80s, but he was a good impressionist.

I wonder if he kept the big '70s hair.

As to Billy Mays, I think I'm having the same reaction I had when Steve Irwin died: "He was so very young, so very loud and so very ON TV. How could this sloppy, real life thing happen?"

[JWBear]

This whole thing is just like an earthquake.

Fawcett was the foreshock
MJ was the big one
Mays, Storm, and Travelena are the aftershocks - dwindleing in significance as time passes...



Then again... Maybe I just didn't get enough sleep last night.

[SzczerbiakManiac]

I wonder if he kept the big '70s hair.Nope (http://www.fredtravalena.com/)
___________________________________________

Here is a very long article by Ian Halperin of the London Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196009/Im-better-dead-Im-How-Michael-Jackson-predicted-death-months-ago.html). I don't know this person or his credentials, but he sounds like he had a good connection to MJ and what he says is pretty damning.

[Strangler Lewis]

A star on the Walk-of-Fame I would not have guessed. Fred, we hardly knew ye.

[Disneyphile]

Aw! I remember Fred! We was a really cool guy! Nice too. :(

Then again, I grew up in Vegas.

[Kevy Baby]

A star on the Walk-of-Fame I would not have guessed. Fred, we hardly knew ye.Speaking of the Walk of Fame...

When Ringo Starr gets his star in 2010, that will leave Paul McCartney as the only Beatle without a star as a solo artist. How the hell did Ringo get one before Paul?!?

[Alex]

He (or someone involved in something he was promoting) was willing to pay for it.

Step 1 of getting a star on the Walk of Fame is asking for it. Step 2 is being selected from those "nominated." Step 3 is giving them $25,000.

If you want to fill this gap you can submit an application (http://www.hollywoodchamber.net/icons/WOF-NominationForm.pdf) on behalf of McCartney (though you'll need to include a letter of consent from him with the application). You and he will need to agree who is paying the 25k. If McCartney doesn't care to get one, and no PR person has convinced him to do it anyway, he'll never get one.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I'm still trying to figure out why I know Fred Travalena. As soon as I saw the name I even had a face to go with it. My best guess is that it's because he was on Hollywood Squares in the 80's.

Hmm, imdb says he impersonated Michael Jackson at the 1992 MTV VMAs.

[CoasterMatt]

Fred Travalena on the Merv Griffin Show (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iQ-QwPIBIY)

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Fred Travalena on the Merv Griffin Show (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iQ-QwPIBIY)Heheh. I went looking for more and found this recent stuff (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWQa_pBEYU4). Even on a crappy youtube vid you can see he really nails the impressions.

[Moonliner]

CNN is saying that there will be a public viewing of MJ sometime this weekend at Neverland Ranch.

That should cause quite the traffic jam.

[Alex]

Maybe they'll put him in the Ferris wheel so more people can see him at a time.

[Snowflake]

Cripes, just what we need, Graceland West, complete with shrine.

[JWBear]

Cripes, just what we need, Graceland West, complete with shrine.

I hope it has plenty of comfortable seating for all those waiting for the resurection.

[Disneyphile]

It's on Friday. I'm actually very tempted to go. (I'd still be back in time for dinner and show.)

[Moonliner]

That should cause quite the traffic jam.

It's on Friday. I'm actually very tempted to go. (I'd still be back in time for dinner and show.)

Care to make a friendly wager on that timetable?

[Disneyphile]

Care to make a friendly wager on that timetable?Well, I am known for being overly optimistic.

Although, it could possibly happen if I head up there at the asscrack of dawn. But, that would also depend on if people camp out the night before.

And, there are plenty enough MJ fans who would probably do that sort of thing.

So, consider me toying with the idea for now... until the details come out which will help with my final decision. ;)

If the family decides to bury him there ala "Graceland" style, I'll wait and go another time to pay my respects.

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

DP - you need to find someone with a helicopter. ;)

[Moonliner]

In a desperate attempt to avoid doing actual work, I pulled up Google Earth and had a look at Neverland Ranch:

A two lane road to/from the ranch, a narrow single lane driveway onto/off the property with no way to make a loop. Honestly I don't see how they think they can logistically pull this off. Perhaps they will close the road entirely and run buses?

[Morrigoon]

CNN is saying that there will be a public viewing of MJ sometime this weekend at Neverland Ranch.

That should cause quite the traffic jam.

That's weird... I thought I heard someone else owned the property now. Guess I heard wrong.

[Disneyphile]

Perhaps they will close the road entirely and run buses?That's what they did back in 1999 (could have been 2000) for a public charity dinner event that was $700 per ticket. I was going to attend, but the company I worked for just shut down, so I didn't have the funds. Anyway, they had designated parking areas, all the way down to Ventura, and then shuttled everyone via buses to/from the ranch.

That's weird... I thought I heard someone else owned the property now. Guess I heard wrong.A company that he partially owns technically owns the ranch. It was purchased that way to prevent him from losing it during his financial downfall.

[Morrigoon]

AHHHH.... smart

[Ghoulish Delight]

The dead can tweet (http://digg.com/d1vITj)

"like being caught in a flesh storm with a 90% chance of satisfaction." Lisa, does that sound about right?

[Snowflake]

Okay, I dashed this off (http://strictly-vintage-hollywood.blogspot.com/) pretty quickly. Just struck me today after reading about the viewing at Neverland.

[Not Afraid]

The dead can tweet (http://digg.com/d1vITj)

"like being caught in a flesh storm with a 90% chance of satisfaction." Lisa, does that sound about right?

Oh yeah, baby!

You know, I wish I HAD slept with Jeff Goldblum. Good thing I still can!

[Disneyphile]

Okay, I dashed this off (http://strictly-vintage-hollywood.blogspot.com/) pretty quickly. Just struck me today after reading about the viewing at Neverland.
Excellent writing! :snap:

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

New Beverly Cinema is showing "The Wiz" on July 15-16th

[flippyshark]

New Beverly Cinema is showing "The Wiz" on July 15-16th

I just rewatched The Wiz two nights ago, and wow, what a mixed bag. The pacing is leaden, certain numbers ("He's The Wiz") are shot in such dim light, they defeat the considerable energy of the performers themselves. Oz is a stark, depressing place (but not in as interesting a way as say Return To Oz), and Diana Ross is just plain miscast. (Not only too old, but in the opening scenes, her shyness seems like a full-blown pathology. How can this character possibly be a teacher?!) The final scene seems to drag on forever. There are odd choices everywhere. It's a mess, plain and simple.

BUT - Michael Jackson is fantastic in this. He's energetic, brilliantly physical and charming. (And beneath the make-up and costume, he still looks like himself!) I do wish there had been more and better opportunities for MJ to strut his stuff on the big screen, especially back when he seemed so full of joy and humanity. (How far south that went, alas.)

Also, I love the "Everybody Rejoice" number, especially when the dancers strip down to their bikini briefs. It's one of the sexiest screenfuls of delicious brown skin you'll ever see.

On the whole, it's impossible to recommend this movie, but there are moments when a remarkable movie peeks through the lameness. Bigtime missed opportunity. (I'm tempted to blame screenwriter Joel Schumaker.)

[Morrigoon]

News just reported that MJ had been living in a rented house in Holmby Hills. Huh. Knowing he was a Disney fan, I found that amusing.

[Morrigoon]

I find it hard to believe that he would have relied on a will and not have set up trusts for his kids so his assets could bypass probate.

[Disneyphile]

News just reported that MJ had been living in a rented house in Holmby Hills. Huh. Knowing he was a Disney fan, I found that amusing.It's on Carolwood Dr. too.

Anyway, I think my plans for the Neverland trip on Friday are already foiled. Just got a call from a friend who said people are already camping under the overpasses on the 101 so they can watch the cavalcade procession TWO days from now. :eek:

This is going to be much bigger than Elvis. Mostly already is, seeing the photos that are coming from other countries of mass memorials, etc. He inspired a LOT of people around the globe, even in third world areas.

I'm suspecting that television programming around the world will come to a screeching halt on Thursday for live coverage.

What a legacy and impact!

[Alex]

Hitler takes the news hard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELyTBXzfQJ8&feature=player_embedded).

[Morrigoon]

Haha, that was great. I love the Hitler freakout videos.

[Chernabog]

I find it hard to believe that he would have relied on a will and not have set up trusts for his kids so his assets could bypass probate.

Just remember, will or no will, probate or no probate, the Death of Michael Jackson will keep many lawyers fully employed for the next few decades.

[Morrigoon]

Someone had to post this memorial tribute. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5ei-hFv3OE)

[Alex]

True, John Wayne died with a will and his estate was still in probate for nearly a quarter century.

But apparently he (Jackson) did have at least one will out there and the children apparently have massive assets safely stored in a trust.

[innerSpaceman]

Haha, that was great. I love the Hitler freakout videos.
TeeHee, that footage can be used till the end of time for so many things to come.


This was one of my favorites. Thank God for Hitler.

[CoasterMatt]

My favorite tribute so far is Billie Tweets (http://billietweets.com/) - A Twitter tribute to Michael Jackson

[SzczerbiakManiac]

Hitler takes the news hard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELyTBXzfQJ8&feature=player_embedded).That was great!

I can't help but wonder how Seth Rudetsky got involved in it though....


In case you don't know who he is, this is one of my favorite bits (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsMpdRXEB-M) of his.

[RStar]

I just got my copy of the last issue (#46) of the E-Ticket magazine. I will miss that publication.

RIP E-Ticket. I enjoyed the ride.....

[lashbear]

My favorite tribute so far is Billie Tweets (http://billietweets.com/) - A Twitter tribute to Michael Jackson
How do they DO that ?? :cool:

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Hitler takes the news hard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELyTBXzfQJ8&feature=player_embedded).That's an especially good one, actually cracked me up.

Someone had to post this memorial tribute. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5ei-hFv3OE)Um, what's with the last half of that?

[Morrigoon]

I dunno. But I couldn't find a better one, so I went ahead and posted that one.

[Chernabog]

Did I post the Dolly Parton message yet?

I fvcking love that woman.

http://www.towleroad.com/2009/06/a-message-from-dolly-parton-on-the-death-of-michael-jackson.html

[lashbear]

Dolly is Total Class. I love her to bits.

[Not Afraid]

WOW! This is news that both Chris and I are incredibly saddened by.

Choreographer Pina Bausch dies (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118005568.html?categoryid=19&cs=1&nid=2590)

Another article. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090630/ap_on_en_ot/eu_germany_obit_bausch)

She was simply amazing and I'm glad I got to experience her company while she was alive.

[€uroMeinke]

WOW! This is news that both Chris and I are incredibly saddened by.

Choreographer Pina Bausch dies (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118005568.html?categoryid=19&cs=1&nid=2590)

Another article. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090630/ap_on_en_ot/eu_germany_obit_bausch)

She was simply amazing and I'm glad I got to experience her company while she was alive.

Wow, this saddens me greatly - she is one choreographer I seriously contemplated traveling around the world to capture her premiers when I learned we had just missed her in Tokyo.

Her work, a blend of performance art and dance always left me mesmerized with it's elaborate constructions and destructions.

[Jazzman]

Dolly is Total Class. I love her to bits.

Me too.

[blueerica]

Dolly is Total Class. I love her to bits.

Me too.

I keep reading "I love her two tits"

[Snowflake]

Karl Malden 93

The Streets of San Francisco will never be the same. RIP

SF Gate (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/06/30/national/a060014D51.DTL&tsp=1)

[Alex]

He was the oldest living male winner of an acting Oscar. Now I have to go remind myself who was second in line.

[Moonliner]

It looks like logistics finally caught up with best intentions.

There will not be a public viewing of MJ at Neverland.

[Capt Jack]

farewell Mr Malden. you were always one of my faves

[Snowflake]

Cripes, today I feel like the Grim Reaper.

Fargo fans (or musical fans) RIP Harve Presnell (http://news-briefs.ew.com/2009/07/fargo-actor-harve-presnell-dead-at-75.html)

[innerSpaceman]

Holy Fvck, they are dropping like flies!!

[Snowflake]

1148

[JWBear]

If I was famous, I'd be sh!tting in my pants right about now...

[Snowflake]

People, stop emailing me, please!

RIP Mollie Sugden

BBC Report (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8129617.stm)

[Alex]

He was the oldest living male winner of an acting Oscar. Now I have to go remind myself who was second in line.

Ernest Borgnine, to answer my own question.

[Chernabog]

Ernest Borgnine, to answer my own question.

He was awesome in those fiber ads.

Wait a minute.... I keep getting him and Wilford Brimley mixed up.

[JWBear]

People, stop emailing me, please!

RIP Mollie Sugden

BBC Report (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8129617.stm)

R.I.P., Mollie. You will be missed. And I am unanimous in that opinion.

[blueerica]

Damn...

[SzczerbiakManiac]

Mrs. Slocombe is no longer free :(

[lashbear]

Dolly is Total Class. I love her to bits.
I keep reading "I love her two tits"
They say a change is as good as a holiday...

RIP Mollie Sugden
BBC Report (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8129617.stm)
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

That's the last we'll hear of her pussy. :(

[flippyshark]

Mollie was hilarious. I'm so glad I have the full run of "Are You Being Served" - it's a never-fail pick-me-up. RIP Mollie

[RStar]

Ernest Borgnine, to answer my own question.

He's still alive??

[Morrigoon]

Awww... Mollie got served. RIP.

[Strangler Lewis]

Cripes, today I feel like the Grim Reaper.

Fargo fans (or musical fans) RIP Harve Presnell (http://news-briefs.ew.com/2009/07/fargo-actor-harve-presnell-dead-at-75.html)

That sucks. I've been working on a script with him in mind.

Seriously.

[Strangler Lewis]

And for you sports fans of a certain age:

Alexis Arguello (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/07/02/SPUS18HLGT.DTL)

Sort of the Garry Kasparov of the boxing world, as these things go.

[Nephythys]

MJ- the links....

This one turned out to be untrue (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1195750/Michael-Jackson-set-plastinated-missing-deadline-cryogenic-freezing.html)

Bodyguard says there was a secret girlfriend (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529818,00.html)

Big Funeral- not going to happen? (
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1196917/Michael-Jacksons-funeral-extravaganza-cancelled.html
)

Why Bubbles (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1196978/Michael-Jacksons-pet-Bubbles-alive-animal-sanctuary-wont-going-funeral.html) will not be attending the funeral.

On going series-

Part 1 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1196188/Michael-Jacksons-life-long-confidante-J-Randy-Taraborrelli-I-saw-eyes-dying.html)

Part 2 (
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1196395/Lisa-Marie-Presley-said-passionate-lover-So-WAS-truth-Jacksons-sexuality.html
)

Part 3 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196633/How-Jacksons-surgery-desperate-bid-look-like-father-hated.html)

Part 4 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1196921/Michael-Jacksons-children-banned-looking-mirrors-toys-thrown-away-night.html)

I think I will pick up the book eventually-and then this morning a Denver radio talk show host was opining how he was convinced MJ was a homosexual and a pedophile.

Shedding no tears (http://www.nypost.com/seven/07022009/news/columnists/shed_no_tears_for_this_twisted_sicko_177187.htm)

Lovely-

[wendybeth]

Larry King seems to be giving MJ's death the Nancy Grace treatment: all Michael, all of the time. Surely something else sort of newsworthy has happened in the past week?

[Snowflake]

He's still alive??

Yes, he just penned his autobiography and did a book signing at Larry Edmunds in Hollywood.

[Moonliner]

Larry King seems to be giving MJ's death the Nancy Grace treatment: all Michael, all of the time. Surely something else sort of newsworthy has happened in the past week?

Perhaps all the deaths lately were staged to distract us from some other event.....

[Alex]

I don't care about Larry King doing it. That's what he always done and spending the week on MJ is actually preferable to the alternative which was probably an hour or two of Sylvia Browne.

Everybody else doing it is crazy. Though similar to Larry King I'd be fine with Glenn Beck doing it. But everybody else? Time to move on.

[Tref]

That sucks. I've been working on a script with him in mind.

Seriously.

And I was writing a poem with him in mind!

[Strangler Lewis]

Scoff if you like, but that's two people I envisioned being in movies of mine who have died before the vision could be realized. Presnell, at least can be replaced. With the other one, the whole bit would have to be canned.

[Not Afraid]

The latest rumor about MJ I heard is that he was castrated as a child to keep his voice high (father's decision, hence the estrangement). This explains why he could not father children of his own. It also explains why. during the pedophile cases, it was claimed that the children could identify MJ's private parts because they were "different".

Interesting theory to be sure.

[Tref]

Yes, he just penned his autobiography and did a book signing at Larry Edmunds in Hollywood.

That was nice of Larry.

[Moonliner]

The latest rumor about MJ I heard is that he was castrated as a child to keep his voice high (father's decision, hence the estrangement). This explains why he could not father children of his own. It also explains why. during the pedophile cases, it was claimed that the children could identify MJ's private parts because they were "different".

Interesting theory to be sure.

It might also explain why MJ was willing to pay out millions to keep those kids quite.

But of course it would not explain why the kids were seeing his private parts in the first place.....

[Gemini Cricket]

Aww. Mollie Sudgen (http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid95531.asp) died.
The lovely Mrs. Slocombe from "Are You Being Served" is gone.
:(

[Moonliner]

People, stop emailing me, please!

RIP Mollie Sugden

BBC Report (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8129617.stm)

Aww. Mollie Sudgen (http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid95531.asp) died.
The lovely Mrs. Slocombe from "Are You Being Served" is gone.
:(

What again?

[Tref]

What again?

I hear it does not get any easier the second go around.

[Gemini Cricket]

Oops! Didn't go back far enough reading posts.
Oh well.

[JWBear]

I thought I was having deja vous!

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

That's totally overkill.

[SzczerbiakManiac]

I guess unlike Michael Jackson (http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=232234&title=The-Rippy-Awards-for-Outstanding-Achievement-in-Obitutainment), Mollie can die twice.

[Disneyphile]

Looks like the memorial for MJ will be taking place at the Staples Center on Tuesday. According to news, 11,000 tickets will be issued free-of-charge to the general public starting tomorrow via a "registration system". Something tells me I'll be seeing those tickets on Ebay by the afternoon. :rolleyes:

Hopefully, I can land one, because I'd like to go. But, I'm definitely not going to support a lowlife scalper and buy one.

[Sohrshah]

D'phile, I'd also like to go! Maybe we can carpool!

[Disneyphile]

D'phile, I'd also like to go! Maybe we can carpool!Sounds good. Also, with both of us trying to get through on the "registration system", it doubles our chances of scoring tickets. I'll keep a watch out for the info and call or text you with it. :)

[Moonliner]

Sounds good. Also, with both of us trying to get through on the "registration system", it doubles our chances of scoring tickets. I'll keep a watch out for the info and call or text you with it. :)

Post it here before it happens and I'll see if I can help.

[Sohrshah]

I'll keep my cell charged and will of course let you know if I see anything as well. I'm usually up by 7:30, so I'll keep my eyes and ears peeled first thing tomorrow!

[Disneyphile]

Post it here before it happens and I'll see if I can help.Thanks. :)

Ideally, they'll require a name which will then be checked via ID at ticket pick-up or something to prevent people who will try to profit from it.

[Ghoulish Delight]

The latest rumor about MJ I heard is that he was castrated as a child to keep his voice high (father's decision, hence the estrangement). This explains why he could not father children of his own. It also explains why. during the pedophile cases, it was claimed that the children could identify MJ's private parts because they were "different".

Interesting theory to be sure.
Wow. That almost makes too much sense.

[Strangler Lewis]

If that were true, it would be noted in the autopsy, and I think we would have heard about it.

[Moonliner]

If that were true, it would be noted in the autopsy, and I think we would have heard about it.

I would hope that a patients right to privacy would not die with them.

Unless it was a contributing factor in his death there is no reason details about MJ (or anyone else) should be released.

[flippyshark]

Hmm ... nah. I know too many men who have voices with the same pitch and tenor as Michael, and as far as I know, they are still "fully equipped." (Two who come to mind are also professional drag queens - and damn good ones. I sometimes do music arrangements for them.)

In any case, MJ's high tenor voice did not have the unnatural quality of castrati - think of a boy soprano, and that's more what castrati sound like.

[Strangler Lewis]

I would hope that a patients right to privacy would not die with them.

Unless it was a contributing factor in his death there is no reason details about MJ (or anyone else) should be released.

In a perfect world, perhaps, but I think this is public information, and The Smoking Gun has a number of autopsy and investigative reports into celebrity deaths on its web site.

[Moonliner]

In a perfect world, perhaps, but I think this is public information, and The Smoking Gun has a number of autopsy and investigative reports into celebrity deaths on its web site.

Yes, in time it might leak out but that's very different from your assertion that the medical examiner would have released that information.

[Strangler Lewis]

I guess I wasn't perfectly clear, but I didn't mean that the coroner or the police would mention it at a press conference if it wasn't relevant. I meant more that it would leak out. Of course, if it is publicly available information, it's not a question of leaking. It's a question of somebody in the press going, "Hmm, I wonder what's in Michael Jackson's autopsy."

[Strangler Lewis]

Upon further review, it appears that the autopsy report would be exempt from disclosure under the California Public Records Act at least as long as there was a concrete possibility that it related to a law enforcement action.

[flippyshark]

For now, burden of proof is on those making the claim. Anyone who says they actually know that MJ was castrated needs to say how they know.

Obviously, even if untrue, this is going to be a successful meme, because it seems to "explain everything." Always a red flag as far as I'm concerned. Until there's evidence, this is a wild notion.

I repeat my contention that his singing voice is perfectly within the range of a normal male tenor - stylized, yes - unnaturally high? No. There's nothing unusual about it. His speaking style is soft and breathy, but that scarcely requires castration. Has anyone here honestly never heard an adult male with a similar soft-high voice? Happens all the time.

[mousepod]

I'm with flippy on this one. I think that child molestation is such a horrible crime that people seem to need an explanation for it, even if an easy answer is never forthcoming.

But as the saying goes, "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story."

[Nephythys]

Debbie (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529867,00.html) wants custody.

Which would put poor little Blanket in a mess wouldn't it?

Jordie (http://trashselector.com/evan-chandler-i-lied-for-my-father-im-sorry-michael/) Chandler (http://www.techbanyan.com/4554/jordan-chandler-admits-lied-about-michael-jackson/) says he lied for his dad.

Gold Coffin (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1196917/Michael-Jacksons-funeral-extravaganza-cancelled.html)

Empty Neverland (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1197247/Inside-Neverland-The-stunning-photographs-Michael-Jacksons-fantasy.html)

Part 5 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1197153/Michael-obsessed-Diana-Ross-mother-feared-corrupt-.html) of the Mail series excerpts.

Last Video (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1197166/Michael-Jacksons-dance-Watch-video-King-Pop-perform-onstage-final-time.html)-and the smile at the end breaks my heart because I know what came next.

[Disneyphile]

Jordie (http://trashselector.com/evan-chandler-i-lied-for-my-father-im-sorry-michael/) Chandler (http://www.techbanyan.com/4554/jordan-chandler-admits-lied-about-michael-jackson/) says he lied for his dad.
I'm sure people will say he was paid to say that now. :rolleyes:

According to another article that I read, it pinned the "obvious" profile that Michael was a pedophile, because he was a childless person with a home that was decorated with child-like things, surrounded by toys and animals, and would play like a kid with kids whenever they came over.

If that's what makes an "obvious" profile of a pedophile, then maybe I should change the first half of my screen name, because according to some media, I'm already guilty, and given popular mob mentality, there should be people slurring my reputation all over. :rolleyes: And, for those of you who haven't seen our home, it's pretty much a mini Neverland into itself. And, when kids have come over, (we don't mind watching our friends' kids for free, so that must also make us "suspicious"), we love playing games with them, watching Disney movies, and I'll often even cook fun food like Mickey Mouse ravioli, etc. Oh the horror! People should never let their kids around me, because I'm obviously a freak. :rolleyes:

Last night, I was scrolling through family pictures of MJ and his kids - taken at birthday parties, riding in the car, etc., etc. They are similar to what I've seen of most parents' photo albums. Despite media rumors, the kids were around and played with other children. The kids also look happy and healthy. Can it be that MJ was actually a human being? What will people do if they find out that he was actually a wonderful father? :eek:

Sorry that I'm dripping in sarcasm here, but I'm honestly sick of all the crap that people still feel the need to dish out. (i.e. "Don't forget he's a pedophile!", etc., etc.) Maybe they can hold up signs and protest the funeral in classic Phelps style.

By the way, Elvis was also technically a pedophile (began his relationship with Priscilla when she was 14) and a rapist (forced himself upon her in his Vegas hotel room in 1972). Yet, we don't hear people talking about that, do we?

And, look how many times Disney has paid out settlements for things they're not even guilty of - it's called picking one's battles for the better of business.

But, I'm not going to change anyone's minds, and I know that. I just don't understand the need to keep slamming someone based on personal beliefs. Ever since it's been going on, it reminds me of the "Kill the Beast" montage in "Beauty and the Beast":

[Gaston:] The Beast will make off with your children.
[Mob:] {gasp}
[Gaston:] He'll come after them in the night.
[Belle:] No!
[Gaston:] We're not safe till his head is mounted on my wall! I
say we kill the Beast!
[Mob:] Kill him!

[Man I:] We're not safe until he's dead
[Man II:] He'll come stalking us at night
[Woman:] Set to sacrifice our children to his monstrous appetite
[Man III:] He'll wreak havoc on our village if we let him wander free
[Gaston:] So it's time to take some action, boys
It's time to follow me

Through the mist
Through the woods
Through the darkness and the shadows
It's a nightmare but it's one exciting ride
Say a prayer
Then we're there
At the drawbridge of a castle
And there's something truly terrible inside
It's a beast
He's got fangs
Razor sharp ones
Massive paws
Killer claws for the feast
Hear him roar
See him foam
But we're not coming home
'Til he's dead
Good and dead
Kill the Beast!

[Belle:] No! I won't let you do this!
[Gaston:] If you're not with us, you're against us!
Bring the old man!
[Maurice:] Get your hands off me!
[Gaston:] We can't have them running off to warn the creature.
[Belle:] Let us out!
[Gaston:] We'll rid the village of this Beast. Who's with me?
[Mob:] I am! I am! I am! )

Light your torch
Mount your horse
[Gaston:] Screw your courage to the sticking place
[Mob:] We're counting on Gaston to lead the way
Through a mist
Through a wood
Where within a haunted castle
Something's lurking that you don't see ev'ry day
It's a beast
One as tall as a mountain
We won't rest
'Til he's good and deceased
Sally forth
Tally ho
Grab your sword
Grab your bow
Praise the Lord and here we go!

[Gaston:] We'll lay siege to the castle and bring back his head!
[Belle:] I have to warn the Beast! This is all my fault! Oh, Papa,
what are we going to do?
[Maurice:] Now, now, we'll think of something.

[Mob:] We don't like
What we don't understand
In fact it scares us
And this monster is mysterious at least
Bring your guns
Bring your knives
Save your children and your wives
We'll save our village and our lives
We'll kill the Beast!

[Cogsworth:] I knew it! I knew it was foolish to get our hopes up.
[Lumiere:] Maybe it would have been better if she had never come at all.
Could it be?
[Mrs Potts:] Is it she?
[Lumiere:] Sacre Bleu! Invaders!
[Cogsworth:] Encroachers!
[Mrs Potts:] And they have the mirror!
[Cogsworth:] Warn the Master! If it's a fight they want, we'll be
ready for them! Who's with me?
[Gaston:] Take whatever booty you can find. But remember, the
Beast is mine!

[Objects:] Hearts ablaze
Banners high
We go marching into battle
Unafraid although the danger just increased
[Mob:] Raise the flag
Sing the song
Here we come, we're fifty strong
And fifty Frenchmen can't be wrong
Let's kill the Beast!

[Mrs Potts:] Pardon me, Master.
[Beast:] Leave me in peace.
[Mrs Potts:] But sir! The castle is under attack!

[Mob:] Kill the Beast!
Kill the Beast

[Lumiere:] This isn't working!
[Featherduster:] Oh Lumiere, we must do something!
[Lumiere:] Wait, I know! )

[Mob:] Kill the Beast!
Kill the Beast!

[Mrs Potts:] What shall we do, Master?
[Beast:] It doesn't matter now. Just let them come.

[Mob:] Kill the Beast!
Kill the Beast!
Kill the Beast!

I think this part sums up that mentality perfectly:

We don't like
What we don't understand
In fact it scares us
And this monster is mysterious at least
Bring your guns
Bring your knives
Save your children and your wives
We'll save our village and our lives
We'll kill the Beast!

[Moonliner]

Ha! I got my entry into the stapes center before the site crashed (about 15 seconds after it was announced....)

[Disneyphile]

Funeral tickets are via a random drawing at www.staplescenter.com.

The official said it is to give everyone a fair chance and also so people cannot take advantage and sell them. :)

Wish me luck!

ML: You rock. :)

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

I signed up for tix.

[Chernabog]

Has anyone here honestly never heard an adult male with a similar soft-high voice? Happens all the time.

Mandy Patinkin for one has a range that goes very, very high.

Also, nobody spreading the bizarre castration rumor has heard of falsetto? Odd.

[Andrew]

Sarah Palin's career (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hAw8YPlfCFbIfCZqqfGJO4t3g9xgD997676O0).

[Ghoulish Delight]

Mandy Patinkin for one has a range that goes very, very high.

Also, nobody spreading the bizarre castration rumor has heard of falsetto? Odd.
Well, it's more than the voice that makes it such a compelling rumor. It's the seeming emotional immaturity, the fact that Joe Jackson is a big enough nutbag to have done it (he used a moment on camera during the day Michael died to plug his new record label), the reports of having very identifiable genitals, the reports that multiple young children are able to identify said genitals yet he's never been convicted of a sexual crime, and the fact that the level of eccentricity that MJ displayed begs a pretty crazy explanation, and that would certainly be one of the craziest.

Like I said, makes almost too much sense. Which probably means it's not true. But I find it pretty plausible.

[Not Afraid]

Not to mention that his children aren't biologically his.

I'm intrigued by the explanation as well.

[mousepod]

Except that castration leads to a diminished sex drive, and doesn't make it impossible for an erection. So it doesn't completely "make sense".

[Gn2Dlnd]

Sarah Palin's career (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hAw8YPlfCFbIfCZqqfGJO4t3g9xgD997676O0).

Beat me to it. Though I doubt her career is over, just this chapter.

[Betty]

Hmmm - scandel or Palin for Prez?

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

I wonder if she'll open up a home for unwed teen mothers. Oh wait, she did already. ;)

[Chernabog]

I'd like to think that she'll fade into the "mavericky" world of the long-forgotten. If she can't handle being Governor, or speaking coherent sentences, how does anyone think she'd be a good Presidential candidate?

[JWBear]

Personally, I hope the Republicans nominate her in '12 (and '16, and '20, and '24.....). :evil:

[Morrigoon]

If she can't handle being Governor, or speaking coherent sentences, how does anyone think she'd be a good Presidential candidate?

Got some folks elected to two terms

[Disneyphile]

Personally, I hope the Republicans nominate her in '12 (and '16, and '20, and '24.....). :evil::snap:

[blueerica]

Was watching her press conference and she said it's because she was not going to run for re-election, and didn't want to be a lame duck governor. She can still impact the community without a title, blah, blah, blah...

I actually don't care enough at this point; whether she's focusing on a bid in 2012 (not voting for her, so whatever...), she's looking for a new outlet for fame (in which case, this helped get her name back into the news), or she's unable to do the job (who cares - not my state), then... well, whatever.

[CoasterMatt]

Steve McNair (http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/04/mcnair.shooting/index.html) - RIP :(

[scaeagles]

I just read about that. Wow.

[blueerica]

Damn.

[RStar]

This thread is way too busy lately.....

:(

And stay away from condos in TN. You might get shot......

[€uroMeinke]

Wim Wenders is my cinematic soul mate

Wim Wenders stops Pina Bausch movie

BERLIN (Hollywood Reporter) – German director Wim Wenders has stopped production on the planned 3D dance film "Pina" following the death of the film's subject -- the legendary choreographer Pina Bausch.
Bausch, who is often credited with having revolutionized modern dance, died on Tuesday after being diagnosed with cancer only days earlier. She was 68 years' old. She had been preparing the film project with Wenders, which was to be the first dance film shot in 3-D.
Wenders' production company Neue Road Movies said it had stopped all pre-production work on the film. After a mourning period, the company will discuss with Bausch's dance company in Wuppertal whether and how to proceed.

[Nephythys]

I'd like to think that she'll fade into the "mavericky" world of the long-forgotten. If she can't handle being Governor, or speaking coherent sentences, how does anyone think she'd be a good Presidential candidate?

Personally, I hope the Republicans nominate her in '12 (and '16, and '20, and '24.....). :evil:

Doubt it- thought I sure as hell hope they come up with someone better than the guy in the office now- because I am sick of the shyt he is pulling....

-anyone else die today?

[Kevy Baby]

Ernest Borgnine, to answer my own question.I met him many (about 25-30) years ago. A that time, he was a little odd, but very nice.

[Alex]

Apparently he has spent much of the time since masturbating.

Coincidence?

[Kevy Baby]

I can have that influence on people.

[Stan4dSteph]

Former US Defense Secretary Robert McNamara is dead at age 93 (from @cnnbrk)

[Snowflake]

Wim Wenders is my cinematic soul mate
BERLIN (Hollywood Reporter) – German director Wim Wenders has stopped production on the planned 3D dance film "Pina" following the death of the film's subject -- the legendary choreographer Pina Bausch.
Bausch, who is often credited with having revolutionized modern dance, died on Tuesday after being diagnosed with cancer only days earlier. She was 68 years' old. She had been preparing the film project with Wenders, which was to be the first dance film shot in 3-D.
Wenders' production company Neue Road Movies said it had stopped all pre-production work on the film. After a mourning period, the company will discuss with Bausch's dance company in Wuppertal whether and how to proceed.


Well, I hope that Bausch's company continues and the film proceeds. Sounds like a 3D dance film would be a great tribute.

[Strangler Lewis]

Former US Defense Secretary Robert McNamara is dead at age 93 (from @cnnbrk)

If we can put a man on the moon, we should be able to cure @cnnbrk.

[scaeagles]

What's this about 1.8 million people trying to get 9000 tix to the Jackson funeral? Wow.

[Snowflake]

What's this about 1.8 million people trying to get 9000 tix to the Jackson funeral? Wow.

I believe Disneyphile was trying. No idea if she was one of those picked to get a pair of tickets.

As for the surprise at the number of people, the London concert dates sold out quickly from what I read, and continued to sell out as they added dates.

I'm sure this whole thing is quite a mess for LAPD and such.

[Disneyphile]

No luck at all here. :(

And, assholes have already tried scalping them on Ebay. Tickets to a funeral. How low can those people possibly go? Thankfully, Ebay appears to be pulling those listings down quickly.

[Moonliner]

No luck at all here. :(

Thankfully, Ebay appears to be pulling those listings down quickly.

Craigslist is pulling them also. One guy was offering to trade a SAG card for a ticket.

[Disneyphile]

Craigslist is pulling them also. One guy was offering to trade a SAG card for a ticket.Wow. Just wow.

[Kevy Baby]

I believe Disneyphile was trying. No idea if she was one of those picked to get a pair of tickets.DP, Sorshah, and Susan were all trying to get tix (in the case of Susan, it was for DP). I know that Susan and DP were not selected. I do not know about Sorshah.





ETA: Wrote my email before I saw DP's responses above - sorry for duplication.

[Disneyphile]

DP, Sorshah, and Susan were all trying to get tix (in the case of Susan, it was for DP). I know that Susan and DP were not selected. I do not know about Sorshah.Sorhshah didn't get selected either. Nor, did any of my resources, whom I'm very thankful to for trying. If anything, it still reminds me that I have some really awesome friends. :)

[Gn2Dlnd]

I'll trade ThinKrisps, but that's as far as I'll go.

As for McNamara, are they sure? Fog of death and all that, you know.

[Betty]

We tried for tickets... didn't get them though.

[Snowflake]

Another friend of mine tried, he also was not selected.

[RStar]

So, if someone here goes, will we get a trip report?

[Kevy Baby]

Something tells me that y'all should be grateful you aren't going to be trying to fight the trip to LA and around Staples tomorrow.

[Strangler Lewis]

So, if someone here goes, will we get a trip report?

Clearly a necessity. Because of the solemn nature of the event, there will be no media coverage.

[Ghoulish Delight]

No luck at all here. :(

And, assholes have already tried scalping them on Ebay. Tickets to a funeral. How low can those people possibly go? Thankfully, Ebay appears to be pulling those listings down quickly.

Craigslist is pulling them also. One guy was offering to trade a SAG card for a ticket.

Wow. Just wow.

If you're not willing to pay for a ticket, you clearly don't care enough.

[Disneyphile]

If you're not willing to pay for a ticket, you clearly don't care enough.I'm sure that's how the scalpers justify it so they can still sleep at night.

[Nephythys]

I was under the impression that they would have screens outside as well-

[Moonliner]

Clearly a necessity. Because of the solemn nature of the event, there will be no media coverage.

You seem to be talking about the funeral rather than the topic at hand, the memorial. The memorial will have an R^2 amount of coverage.


(where R = Any reasonable level of media coverage)

[Moonliner]

I was under the impression that they would have screens outside as well-

I think that idea was scrapped in favor of not having mass casualties in the middle of downtown LA.

(or at the very least, not having really really mucked up traffic, even by LA standards)

[Alex]

Craigslist is pulling them also. One guy was offering to trade a SAG card for a ticket.

How do you trade a SAG card? Doesn't that just mean membership in the union?

[Gn2Dlnd]

Clearly a necessity. Because of the solemn nature of the event, there will be no media coverage.

I think you forgot your sarcasm tags.

[Moonliner]

How do you trade a SAG card? Doesn't that just mean membership in the union?

Trade a ticket for a SAG card I think was the concept. It said something about the "Taft-Hartley" rule and getting a part in a movie he was producing.....

[Moonliner]

I think you forgot your sarcasm tags.

No, it's more fun without them.

[Morrigoon]

Sorhshah didn't get selected either. Nor, did any of my resources, whom I'm very thankful to for trying. If anything, it still reminds me that I have some really awesome friends. :)

I tried for ya too... no dice.

[mousepod]

To bring this thread back to 2009 deaths:

Allen Klein kicked the bucket (http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/07/05/2009-07-05_toughguy_beatles_manager_dies.html).

[Snowflake]

RIP Bob Mitchell
One of the last silent film organists and founder of the Mitchell Boy Choir (think The Bishops Wife, original not remake). Bob played regularly at The Silent Movie Theater on Fairfax and was a lovely guy. He started playing silent films in 1925 and continued up until just a few months ago, at age 97.


I've not found an obit, I heard from a friend in LA he'd passed. An appreciation/interview can be found here (http://www.octos.org/bio/bobmitchell.htm)

[Jazzman]

Whomever chose Staples Center for the memorial instead of a larger venue is ultimately responsible for the ticket scalping fiasco. With the worldwide outpouring of grief, obviously 10000 tickets doesn't come close to being enough, so obviously there is going to be an astronomical demand for tickets. Realistically, they should have chosen a much larger venue and planned more than one memorial, say a "friends, family and important famous people" service, and an open public service. Regular people have multiple services, so why not Michael? I'm also surprised that it won't be broadcast on every channel, a la Princess Di. That would ease a lot of trouble too. But, there's also the question of whether this turmoil is just what the Jackson family wants, as it makes the event even bigger news, much as Michael courted the gossip mags to keep himself relevant. Whatever the case, it looks like it'll be one giant SNAFU. Sad for the mourning public.

[Moonliner]

Whomever chose Staples Center for the memorial instead of a larger venue is ultimately responsible for the ticket scalping fiasco. With the worldwide outpouring of grief, obviously 10000 tickets doesn't come close to being enough, so obviously there is going to be an astronomical demand for tickets. Realistically, they should have chosen a much larger venue and planned more than one memorial, say a "friends, family and important famous people" service, and an open public service. Regular people have multiple services, so why not Michael? I'm also surprised that it won't be broadcast on every channel, a la Princess Di. That would ease a lot of trouble too. But, there's also the question of whether this turmoil is just what the Jackson family wants, as it makes the event even bigger news, much as Michael courted the gossip mags to keep himself relevant. Whatever the case, it looks like it'll be one giant SNAFU. Sad for the mourning public.

Errr, I think the plan is to broadcast it on a large number of stations. The organizers have mentioned giving media outlets a free worldwide feed...

[Not Afraid]

If anyone IS going, may I suggest taking the Blue Line and NOT driving.

And, if anyone takes the blue line, may I suggest calling in sick tomorrow.

[Jazzman]

Errr, I think the plan is to broadcast it on a large number of stations. The organizers have mentioned giving media outlets a free worldwide feed...

That's good. The last I heard, that wasn't the plan, though I have been at the beach lighting fireworks for three days so I may have missed a lot of Mikey news. Definitely a good idea.

[Kevy Baby]

Whomever chose Staples Center for the memorial instead of a larger venue is ultimately responsible for the ticket scalping fiasco.The only way to get anything larger would require going outdoors (Staples can hold about 20,000 for "concerts"). Doing something like this outdoors would require MUCH more infrastructure (video displays and audio in particular - both of which are MUCH easier to hang from Staples's rafters than try to set up at say the Coliseum) and would require a more extensive setup. Yes, I know that they just held the Lakers celebration at the Coliseum, but I believe to do an MJ tribute properly, they will need more than what they had for the Lakers.

I am guessing that they will be utilizing the same staging that was already in place at Staples for the rehearsals that were going on there already (they rehearsed there the night before his passing and the crew was already set up and in place for another rehearsal the day of his passing).

Also, Staples's will have much better infrastructure to handle the broadcast on such short notice.

Errr, I think the plan is to broadcast it on a large number of stations.The feed is being offered free of charge to any station/network who wants to carry it.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

No matter how big the venue, there would have been ticket scalpers. There are always. ticket. scalpers. for everything.

[lashbear]

No luck at all here. :(

And, assholes have already tried scalping them on Ebay. Tickets to a funeral. How low can those people possibly go? Thankfully, Ebay appears to be pulling those listings down quickly.
Your two tickets were won by two Australians.

I just saw them on the morning show here, at the airport about to leave. The interviewer asked them "How big of a MJ fan are you" and the infuriating answer was:

"Oh, we're not really much fans of his, but it was a once-in-a-lifetime experience, sooo..."

Well, buddy, hitting yourself in the face with a board studded with razor blades is a once-in-a-lifetime experience too !!! Why not try that next !!!!!

I apologise on behalf of all Ashtrayans. :rolleyes:

[Jazzman]

"Oh, we're not really much fans of his, but it was a once-in-a-lifetime experience, sooo..."

Wow... That is the epitome of douchiness. There are millions of people who want to be there. Even though I'm not one of them, I still am appalled: why burn up two spots that could have gone to someone who would have truly appreciated them?

Look out, Karma's comin' and she's wearing steel toed boots!

[Ghoulish Delight]

I suggest a series of fights to the death. Only then will we know who truly wants it more.

[Not Afraid]

Dual! Because, Michael Jackson's death is worth at least one other person - at the VERY least!

[Strangler Lewis]

I'm assuming that the choice of venue is mostly about selling stuff, be it the broadcast, souvenirs, etc. If it was about allowing the most people to pay their respects, do with him what you do with popes, presidents and princesses. Let him lie in state in some accessible venue and let everybody line up, file by and go the f*** home. With no t-shirt.

[Disneyphile]

Let him lie in state in some accessible venue and let everybody line up, file by and go the f*** home. With no t-shirt.I had actually hoped that would have been the idea originally. But, I hope the venue doesn't sell souvenirs.

[Not Afraid]

He won't be at Staples anyways. He will be buried at Forest Lawn tomorrow.

[Alex]

Tickets get sold to celebrity tributes and memorial events all the time and that's pretty much all that this is. The organizers should have sold them in a Dutch auction with proceeds going to charity if they didn't want them scalped without seeming craven.

[CoasterMatt]

Robert McNamara - Architect of U.S. Involvement in Vietnam (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/06/AR2009070601197_pf.html)

[Moonliner]

Robert McNamara - Architect of U.S. Involvement in Vietnam (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/06/AR2009070601197_pf.html)

Not again!

As for McNamara, are they sure? Fog of death and all that, you know.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I could see wanting to be there for the spectacle. If I were to get tickets it wouldn't be to rend my clothes and sob, but to be there in the moment, though I am a fan.

[Kevy Baby]

I'm assuming that the choice of venue is mostly about selling stuff...As mentioned in an earlier post from me, at least some of the decision was probably based on the fact that he was already rehearsing at Staples. I am guessing that the location was already paid for (as well as staging, lights, sound, video), so using it for the memorial was the least-cost venue.

[Kevy Baby]

And request to moderators: can you separate out the MJ discussion into a separate thread? The discussion really deserves its own (and all the other dead folk deserve to rest in peace).

Thank you in advance (or F you if you won't :D).

[cirquelover]

I don't think they would be using his stage set up because they have reported that Ringling Brothers is moving the circus animals in tomorrow morning. It would appear they already have the venue booked themselves. Wouldn't that be a fun turnover for the crew, going from a memorial to a circus setup!

[Jazzman]

Wouldn't that be a fun turnover for the crew, going from a memorial to a circus setup!

There's a difference?

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

Wish I'd have won. I would have taken DP. :(

[CoasterMatt]

Drake Levin, Guitarist for Paul Revere & The Raiders R.I.P. (http://www.oregonlive.com/music/index.ssf/2009/07/paul_rever_and_the_raiders_dra.html) :(

[Nephythys]

Updates (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1197919/Michael-Jackson-memorial-Britains-Got-Talent-finalist-Shaheen-sing-service.html) on the Memorial service plans for MJ.