Lounge of Tomorrow - I have my bib on, Mr. President...

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Did ya catch the recruitment pitch at the end? I can smell the desperation from here.

I kinda liked it :)

Only because I think he tanked. Nothing new, same talking points, 6 mentions of 9/11. And the thing is, nobody is going to change their mind as a result of this speech. Anyone that supports the war after that speech, supported it before the speech. I don't think it will fix his plummeting numbers and I don't think it will lessen the anger that is growing over his blunders. In that regard, I liked the speech.

C'mon MBC, that little tear right at the end didn't get ya??

Tough audience

Well I don't mean to speak for MBC, but if "tough" = discerning, then yes.

Largely predictable verbiage, though the "higher calling" recruitment was unexpected and cringe-worthy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

The media doesn't bother to inform us that after the end of "hostilities" in WWII in Germany it took about 2.5 years for the insurgency of Hitler supporters to be controlled.

Please, don't ever, don't ever compare this war favorably with WWII.

It didn't start the same way. It didn't end the same way. It wasn't fought the same way. And we were doing it with the support of many, many other allies.

We may have removed the dictator, but the circumstances surrounding all of it makes it quite a different situation.

There was only one line that gathered any applause in the speech. One of the commentators on ABC said that it was started by the Bush entourage at the back of the room. Not that this level of orchestration surprises me. It did cause me to consider though that if this speech does not improve his numbers, pretty much nothing will. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Well said, LSPE. :)

I found this online. It is a translation of the speech.

Quote:

"My fellow Americans:

"My handlers tell me that there are growing rumbles of discontent concerning our handling of Iraq. Well, I've listened to them, and thought long and hard about this, and what I've decided to tell you tonight is: get stuffed."

"You think it's easy being President? Well it isn't. Why don't you people get that? I'm the President, and you're not, and that's because I was up for the hardship and tedium of the campaign, and had the right connections, and you weren't and didn't. If you don't like it, you can run in a couple of years. Raise yourselves a $250 milion war chest, and knock yourselves out.

"Now, about Iraq. We're there for the long haul. If I were to speak honestly, I'd probably say I don't see any way out of this mess any time in the next ten years, but why should I tell you that? Some of you'd just get all upset, and I'd probably end up having to do more speeches like this one to smooth things out, and I think it's pretty clear how much hate doing these more than a couple times a year. Look, when it comes right down to it, most people, Iraqi civilians, Americans and terrorists alike, are pretty much abstractions to me. You all baffle me, you really do. You seem to do stuff all the time that goes against what I believe to be correct, and I find that unnerving and vaguely threatening.

"Now, the fact is, locked up somewhere in my mind is a clear idea why we're spending so much time and energy, so many military and civilian lives, in Iraq. I'd like to tell you what it is, I really would. Unfortunately, I just don't think I could explain it in any way that wouldn't have you thinking that I'd made some sort of mistake here, and I know for sure I haven't really made any mistakes. So, I'm sorry, but you leave me no choice but to mouth the same platitudes I've mouthed a dozen times before.

"Another thing: I firmly believe, and have all my life, that admitting any sort of error, or changing one's mind after it has been set, is a fatal weakness. I am here to tell you tonight that no matter how hard you try, you are never going to get me to show that kind of weakness. So, I remind you again, if that's the sort of thing you were expecting to hear, get stuffed.

"To sum up: everything is fine, no mistakes have been made by anyone, we're changing nothing, and you can watch whatever it is you people watch on TV tonight without worrying that you're going to get blown out of your seat by by the impact of a crashing hijacked airliner, at least not in the next few days. Sure, a large number of people in a distant, rather unpleasant place are likely to meet their ends over the next months and years, but, as I've already explained, most of them are abstractions and we are not.

"OK, I'll admit to having a vague feeling that my general lack of knowledge of the world outside the US may have led me to make decisions that may have had an overall adverse effect, but if you think I'd ever admit to that, you're out of your freakin' minds.

"We're staying in Iraq and thats that. Might be forever, the way things are going, but I'll be out of office soon, set up for life and it'll be up to Jeb or whover else succeeds me to figure out what to do.

"Thank you and good night."

Well, after my anticipation of the speech, I was unable to view it. I forgot my daughter had a basketball game at the same time of the speech. I also had to coach a game tonight at 7:30, so i just got home and haven't even read the transcript.

I will read it when I am able and offer opinions then - just didn't want anyone to think I was avoiding the subject.

To respond to LSPE, I am not comparing the missions, the start, the purpose, or anything regarding WWII to this war with the exception of the fact that insurgencies lasting years after the end of major combat operation are the norm, not the exception.

Well, regime changes that necessitate the building of a standing army and police force ending in utter failure is the norm, not the exception.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

How much time? I've heard military leaders estimate 8-10 years. In the time we have been in Iraq, we have suffered more casualties than Vietnam did in the same period of time.

True, but in 2.25 years, we've lost 1700. Over a 10 year period, that would be 6800. Vietnam, if I recall my histoty, had US involvement from 1961 until 1973, a period of 12 years, with 58000+ dead. Not much of a comparison.

Now granted, it's certainly not a realistic comparison because I believe at the height of the Vietnam war we had around 500,000 troops there, but in the first 2.25 years, our troop involvement was significantly less in Vietnam than it has been in the first 2.25 years of our involvement in Iraq.