I have my bib on, Mr. President...

[SacTown Chronic]

... so go ahead and feed me a line of bullsh*t. I'll be glued to my tv, anxious to be told what to think. In the meantime, I'll reflect on what got us to this point. Want to come with, sir?

DIANE SAWYER: But stated as a hard fact, that there were weapons of mass destruction as opposed to the possibility that he could move to acquire those weapons still — PRESIDENT BUSH: So what's the difference? ~ interview with Diane Sawyer, 12/03 (7 months after invasion)

The difference is clear to over 1700 American soldiers and their families, sir.

We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud ~ Condi Rice, 9/02

You may be reading too much. I don't know anybody that I can think of who has contended that the Iraqis had nuclear weapons. ~ Donald Rumsfeld, 6/03

Huh? Maybe Condi meant mushroom tip?

I think the burden is on those people who think he didn't have weapons of mass destruction to tell the world where they are. ~ Ari Fleischer, 7/03

Oh, it's my fault we can't find the WMD. I did not know that.

But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them. ~ George Bush, 5/03

Cool! So where are they?

We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat. ~ Donald Rumsfeld, 3/03

Can you be more specific?

It's going to take time to find them, but we know he had them. And whether he destroyed them, moved them or hid them, we're going to find out the truth. One thing is for certain: Saddam Hussein no longer threatens America with weapons of mass destruction. ~ George Bush, 5/03

Psssst, Mr. President, don't you mean democracy is on the march?

Given time, given the number of prisoners now that we're interrogating, I'm confident that we're going to find weapons of mass destruction. ~ Gen. Richard Myers, 5/03

[Janis Joplin] Interrogation is just another word for torturous abuse. [/Janis Joplin]



There. I feel much better now. On with the show, Mr. Bush.


Last throes.

[scaeagles]

I am looking forward to the speech for far different reasons. I suppose it is all who you trust.

While Sac certainly shows very real inconsistencies in what has been said by various members of the administration and the President, and a change in tune on WMD, I will again point out that Jordanian, British, Egyptian, and Russian intelligence services also said they had WMD, as did Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Kennedy, blah, blah, blah. Should Saddam not have repeatedly violated those tenets of the cease fire from Gulf War I requiring instant access to any cite for inspection, perhaps verification of no existance could have been achieved. We know he had them and used them before, and we have no evidence of their destruction.

But this has all been discussed before. I guess we'll do it again.

Do I wish to trust the what I am told in the news?

The large portion of the media and many prominent dems told us around 10,000 troops would be lost in the initial assault. It was about one tenth of that.

The large portion of the media and many prominent dems told us that we'd never be able to turn over sovereignty to the Iraqis by the deadline of June 30, 2004, but it happened earlier than that.

The large portion of the media and many prominent dems told us that elections could never happen in the time frame given.

The large portion of the media and many prominent dems said we'd never be able to clean out Fallujah, or that doing so would result in hundreds of US casualties.

The large portion of the media and many prominent dems said that the Iraqis were too factionalized to ever come together and form a government or construct a constitution. They have and they are.

The media doesn't bother to inform us that after the end of "hostilities" in WWII in Germany it took about 2.5 years for the insurgency of Hitler supporters to be controlled.

I realize that "doom and gloom" makes the best news. I realize it is not going as well in Iraq as I would like it. I also realize it is better than the media told us it would be and better than they are telling us it is now. I realize that benefits of democracy in the Middle East are numerous.

I also realize that public support for the war is now below 40%. Interestingly, a poll around the same time said that trust in the national media is at an all time low.

I am certain that the speech tonight will sway that public opinion a bit. I am curious as to why NBC and CBS are, at this point, not planning on airing the speech.

I would offer that if I said a week before the invasion that over two years into the operation we would have lost only 1700 (or so) Americans, I would have been laughed at and told it would be 10 times that at least. Am I meaning to belittle the soldiers that have died? Not in the least, as every death is tragic and I do mourn for the families of the soldiers. The question is oft posed to supporters of the war "Would you want your son or daughter to die for Iraq?". Well, the answer is that I would be very proud if my child was serving in the armed services and fighting in Iraq, and I would be praying whole heartedly for their safety, as I do now for the soldiers there daily.

I know that there is no one here that wishes for bad things to happen in Iraq to further a certain political agenda. We have different reasons for and different perspectives and different people that we trust as sources for what is happening. I would offer, though, that conflict and change takes time, and I hope, as does everyone here, that it is resolved as quickly as possible.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I would offer, though, that conflict and change takes time, and I hope, as does everyone here, that it is resolved as quickly as possible.

How much time? I've heard military leaders estimate 8-10 years. In the time we have been in Iraq, we have suffered more casualties than Vietnam did in the same period of time. Due to these facts and unlike WW2, nobody is signing up for this war. If we are there for 10 more years, maybe you will get a chance to be proud of you children over there, whether they want to be there or not, because I can't see how we are going to do this without a draft coming back.

I'm not going to even bother to watch tonight. My blood pressure can't handle it. Are we going to hear that the insurgency is in its last throes, even though, by all realistic accounts it is growing, not shrinking. Are we going to hear that liberals don't have the backbone to fight? Are we going to hear all about how good an idea the social security plan is?

No thanks, I'd rather chew aluminum foil than listen to this guy lie through his teeth, while our soldiers continue to get killed on a daily basis.

[Scrooge McSam]

I'm just going to take on 2 points here, as a full rebuttal could take all night (not to mention that Daddy has to make sure not to get his pressure up).

Originally Posted by scaeagles

We know he had them and used them before, and we have no evidence of their destruction.

Not so fast! Ever heard of Hussein Kamel?

Hussein Kamel, son-in-law of Saddam Hussein, defected to the US in 1995. Is this ringing a bell?

Kamel was widely praised after his defection for providing the US with evidence of weapons Saddam possessed that the US had no knowledge of. Great guy, that Kamel.

Until... he told us that the WMD we sought had been destroyed, on his order, back in 1991 to keep weapons inspectors from finding them. The chicken hawks didn't want to listen to him then. He conflicted with their carefully constructed rationale for invasion.

General Saati, of the Iraqi army backs up everything Kamel said, but since we've had him in solitary confinement, we're not able to hear too much from him lately.

So that's two highly placed members of Saddam's government saying in no uncertain terms that the weapons we sought had been destroyed, not to mention our utter failure to find any, all the while professing that we know right where they are.

You have evidence. You just don't choose to believe it.

Originally Posted by scaeagles

The large portion of the media and many prominent dems told us that we'd never be able to turn over sovereignty to the Iraqis by the deadline of June 30, 2004, but it happened earlier than that.

Sovereignty

To borrow a line from the Princess Bride - "You keep using that word and I do not think you know what it means"

[SacTown Chronic]

Jihadist

[SacTown Chronic]

Doing his level best to tie Iraq to 9/11.


Liar.

[SacTown Chronic]

Complete the mission!

[Scrooge McSam]

Awww now Don't be that way

I thought he did pretty good

Why do you hate America?

*Scrooge ducks*

[SacTown Chronic]

Originally Posted by Scrooge McSam

Why do you hate America?

I also hate freedom. And apple pie.

[Scrooge McSam]

Mothers

They're the worst