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Alex 10-02-2009 02:06 PM

The guy calling was not the guy driving, he was a passenger. Presumably the driver was working at it. And the driver was a member of the California Highway Patrol so I assume he knew something about driving. Here's more details. But it is certainly possible that the driver didn't do something he could have been doing, I don't know the conditions under which he was driving.

Here's where they crashed. Not only did they hit an intersection but it was a t-intersection so regardless of why they were still traveling 100+ miles an hour they were screwed.

Alex 10-02-2009 02:11 PM

Oh, to your first question. I would say it was 3-4 miles to get myself to a complete stop from the first suspicion that something was wrong. Only a couple minutes but I did spend a fair portion of that going more than 100 miles an hour. I did put the car in neutral for bursts but let me tell you that the noises a car in neutral makes with an open throttle is extremely scary in itself and it feels like you're making a choice between having the car go uncontrollably fast and having the car explode.

ETA: Also, the three other people in the car becoming extremely...excited (to use a nicer word) when they realized what was going on didn't help to make sure I responded to the situation with peak efficiency.

katiesue 10-02-2009 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonliner (Post 301293)
In the old days, you could also just turn the key off, or jam it into 1st or reverse.

In most cars if you turn the key off it locks the steering wheel.

And it was a loaner car from the dealer, not his own car so he may not have been as familiar with the controls as well.

Moonliner 10-02-2009 02:59 PM

Accidents happen everyday to both good and bad drivers. Sometimes there is just nothing you can do. Another car runs a light and T-bones you, or your breaks fail just as you reach that crosswalk full of kids....

But that was not the case here. The driver had time and the possibility of stopping the car. He made bad choices and paid the price for it.

It takes time to get a car up to 120mph (the reported speed), it took time for the passenger to make a call to 911, get connected and talk with them. Time that could have been used to prevent this accident.

Time to turn off the engine, time to put it in neutral, time to do a lot of things.

Oh and just for the record, In my younger days, I was on a motorcycle when the throttle stuck open. I pulled the clutch in and yes, it did sound like it was going to explode right between my legs but I still let it scream long enough to break to a stop and dump that mother F'er on the ground. So I know the sound and I know the feeling.

Ghoulish Delight 10-02-2009 03:07 PM

No one knows how they'll react to an emergency until they're in one. He was in an unfamiliar car dealing with a confusing situation. I will simply continue to be thankful that I wasn't the one who had to try to deal with it and have people criticize me after I've accidentally killed much of my family.

Alex 10-02-2009 03:24 PM

I think youlre jumping to conclusions that aren't entirely founded. But even accepting that the driver was a horrible driver (even though he's been through advanced training) or just paniced under pressure and got everybody killed. So what?

if that exposed a design flaw is Toyota supposed to just say "he wouldn't be dead if he'd driven better"?



From posting on a car board apparently this car has an unusual button shifting system. And it was a loaner so it is entirely possible that the the driver was having confusion issues.

SzczerbiakManiac 10-02-2009 05:56 PM

Crocheted Male Genetalia

Gemini Cricket 10-02-2009 06:02 PM

Ugh, those poor people. Sad.
:(

Moonliner 10-02-2009 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex (Post 301308)
I think youlre jumping to conclusions that aren't entirely founded. But even accepting that the driver was a horrible driver (even though he's been through advanced training) or just paniced under pressure and got everybody killed. So what?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight (Post 301307)
No one knows how they'll react to an emergency until they're in one. He was in an unfamiliar car dealing with a confusing situation. I will simply continue to be thankful that I wasn't the one who had to try to deal with it and have people criticize me after I've accidentally killed much of my family.

In short, this appears to have been a preventable accident. We don't do anyone any favors by turning away from that truth. I think it's better to learn from it so that if one day you are in that situation you are better prepared to deal with it. Going forward will you ever drive a car without looking at the shifting pattern? If you car races out of control on a highway will you think to put it in neutral? Those are the lessons to take from this because there are a lot of reasons besides questionable floor mats that can cause an accelerator can get stuck open.

Alex 10-02-2009 08:00 PM

Ok, so going back to your original question:

Quote:

Does anyone but me see a problem with that call?
Apparently, the answer is no.

That said, the driver may very well have done the right stuff but not known how in an unfamiliar car because that model has some still unusual features. Here's what one owner posted on a message board:

Quote:

This was a horrible accident and like many accidents several things in addition to a stuck accelerator must have occurred to end in such a tragedy. I suspect that since the car was a loaner the driver was unfamiliar with the controls. If this had been a normal car with a key ignition then he could have turned the key to turn off the engine; however, I own an ES350 for many years and I didn’t even know that to turn off the engine of my car while driving, I need to hold the On/Off switch for 3 seconds. Also it is common because of the irregular shift pattern on this vehicle, for new drivers to mistakenly drive in the manual shift mode. In this mode the car will still automatically shift when the RPM’s reach a high enough level; however the N for neutral is located adjacent to the up shift position when in manual shift, so if in an emergency you are unaware of this you would push the shift up to the N position but are actually up shifting the gears.
It is worth noting that the fact that to turn off the engine while the car is in motion requires pushing the button for 3 seconds is not mentioned in the owner's manual.

And the NHTSB issued a report in 2007 that Lexus drivers have reported difficulty stopping cars with stuck accelerators because of these issues, plus

Quote:

With the engine throttle plate open, the vacuum power assist of the braking system cannot be replenished and the effectiveness of the brakes is reduced significantly.
So it is quite possible that he:

1. Tried to put it in neutral but because the car was in a mode that he may not even have known existed, was not actually performing the maneuver necessary.

2. Then tried to turn off the car but couldn't.

3. And meanwhile he's breaking hard but quickly losing braking power.

4. He's dealing with trying to figure all of this out while weaving through traffic in a car going over 100 miles per hour.

Do I know that is what happened? No, but I wasn't there like you were. If it did, does this mean it was still an avoidable accident. Sure, if that is the lesson one really wants to find in it. The man was trained in advanced driving skills, he was apparently reasonably calm as you hear him providing information on where they are, reports are that he had his hazard lights on. Why jump to the conclusion that he behaved stupidly otherwise? He may have, but why assume it?

Also, you mentioned the time it takes to get up to 120 miles per hour. According this video, in a Lexus ES350 it takes 11 seconds to go from 0 to 120. 5-6 seconds if you're already going freeway speeds. I imagine most of the time was spend trying to figure out if one's gone crazy and your foot really isn't on the accelerator.


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