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Moonliner 04-03-2008 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chernabog (Post 202593)
Because it is a transgender MAN having the baby. People who are transgender often feel that there was a biological f**kup that is being corrected by making their bodies match their gender (or lack thereof... there's a lot more to it than a man wanting to be a woman and vice versa, as in, a lot of gray shades in between). For one thing, the FTM (female-to-male) involved in this has been taking testosterone for many years, I believe had the "top surgery" (double masectomy) -- socially and mentally (and hormonally) this person is male, with the chromosomes and nether regions as a female.

To say that this person is a woman with a mere LEGAL distinction of being male is incredibly trivializing and condescending.

I mean, I guess you could say that you don't see what the big deal of a person who was born with a vagina and uterus having a baby is, but it IS an odd case because of the social aspects of the whole thing.
Nature also does not care about how one feels or their mental outlook. Nature is a cold hard bitch that eats baby seals and lets kittens starve.

So yeah, I don't see how a messed up individual having a baby makes national headlines. It happens everyday. If she can love and take care of the child then great for her but is it news? I still say no.

The news story I saw was all about "medical miracle" Man having babay. Which is not true and that's what I responding to not the individual in the story.

Chernabog 04-03-2008 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonliner (Post 202597)
So yeah, I don't see how a messed up individual having a baby makes national headlines. It happens everyday. If she can love and take care of the child then great for her but is it news? I still say no.

The news story I saw was all about "medical miracle" Man having babay. Which is not true and that's what I responding to not the individual in the story.
:mad:

You're not making any sense here whatosever.

First, you're responding to the "messed up individual" (ummmmmm how many trans people do YOU know, apparently zero). Which you were responding to before.

Then you say you're not responding to the individual, you're responding to the news headline. Which said nothing about a medical miracle. The person is indeed a transgender man who is pregnant.

Now what do nature and seals have to do with the price of dogfarts in China?

Kevy Baby 04-03-2008 05:04 PM
What do you call the surgery for a sex-change to go from a woman to a man?

Spoiler:
Adadictamy (say it out loud - several times if necessary)

Moonliner 04-03-2008 05:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chernabog (Post 202598)
:mad:

You're not making any sense here whatosever.
Yeah, I get that alot. ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chernabog (Post 202598)
:mad:

First, you're responding to the "messed up individual" (ummmmmm how many trans people do YOU know, apparently zero).
Yes, messed up in a chemical/physical sense. If you deny that you are closing your eyes to the truth. On an emotional/social level I have no idea this individual might be another Jack the ripper, a Mother Teresa or anywhere in between I have no idea and it's not really relevant anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chernabog (Post 202598)

Then you say you're not responding to the individual, you're responding to the news headline. Which said nothing about a medical miracle. The person is indeed a transgender man who is pregnant.
I'm responding to A news story not the news story. "Medical Miracle" was the title of the story I'm talking about.

Alex 04-03-2008 05:29 PM
I had seen tons of headlines about this but never followed through. But not one headline I saw gave any indication that it wasn't a biological male person that was pregnant.

But I was able to guess it which is why I never followed through to read an actual article.

alphabassettgrrl 04-03-2008 05:34 PM
He was on Oprah today. I haven't watched it yet.

Gender is a fascinating subject with endless variations.

Chernabog 04-03-2008 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonliner (Post 202601)
Yeah, I get that alot. ;)
Me too, no worries. :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonliner
Yes, messed up in a chemical/physical sense. If you deny that you are closing your eyes to the truth. On an emotional/social level I have no idea this individual might be another Jack the ripper, a Mother Teresa or anywhere in between I have no idea and it's not really relevant anyway.
The implication you made before is that trans people are messed up, they aren't normal people, that they're mentally and socially lacking (i.e. not right in the head, etc.). If you say someone got "messed up" or are "messed up", that is pretty negative connotation. Maybe we're just arguing semantics here. Many trans people have happy, fulfulling, productive lives, and the only difference between you and I and them is that they were born with the wrong set of physical glands. To think about this stuff certainly screws with one's traditionally taught concepts of gender, sex, social norms, and the idea of what is "normal" to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonliner
I'm responding to A news story not the news story. "Medical Miracle" was the title of the story I'm talking about.
Well then whatever newsperson wrote that particular headline was a complete schmuck. ;)

Morrigoon 04-03-2008 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chernabog (Post 202596)
As someone who was roommates with a trans FTM when he started hormone therapy, that's again very trivializing and condescending. This person is a man, not a bearded lady. Again, it's the social aspect of all this in relation to gender, not any biological miracle aspect (which I agree, it isn't).
Cherny, you know I love my "trans" friends (okay, friend), and acknowledge trans people by whichever gender they feel suits them best, but I still refuse to act amazed that a man has a baby if that man still has his female plumbing intact.

And I didn't say a bearded lady. I said "someone sporting a beard that happens to still have their original plumbing." I believe I made that distinction.

alphabassettgrrl 04-03-2008 06:46 PM
Oprah actually did a decent job with the appearance. A couple odd looks toward the audience, like to say "isn't this weird" but on the whole, not so bad I guess.

Advocate has an article by Tom Beattie (there is a picture)http://www.advocate.com/exclusive_detail_ektid52947.asp

My favorite quote: >>In a technical sense I see myself as my own surrogate, though my gender identity as male is constant.<<

A response, also on Advocate:
http://www.advocate.com/exclusive_detail_ektid53091.asp
It's a supportive response.

BarTopDancer 04-03-2008 07:17 PM
Every headline I have read on this implies that a man, born a biological male was pregnant. What reality is a man, who was a woman, decided to keep his biological "plumbing" so he could have a child one day. The "plumbing" he was born with. The plumbing that was designed by nature to produce children. If a man, who was born a biological male was also born with ovaries and a uterus, the story would be *news* to me.

It saddens me that he is experiencing discrimination in receiving care because he changed his gender identity. But I don't think him being pregnant is any sort of medical miracle then any other couple who undergoes artificial insemination since at one time, he was a woman, with female organs, that he chose to keep when he became a man.

Few concerns though - what happens if they can't get to the hospital in time to have a C section? What will happen to the breast milk that develops?


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