Erica's Wild Coffee Tangent

[blueerica]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

And I think that where you work is the coffee and tea that you begin to prefer. You prefer the methods that they use because you learn what they tell you. Starbucks will tell you why their coffee is better and their methods are better than Peets. Peets will do the same for Starbucks. I think I make damn good coffee and that Starbucks and Peets taste about the same. I'll drink either and won't sit there and make a fuss about how much xyz sucks. But in the end I prefer where I worked (which is a coffee cart) and private coffee houses (gypsy, coffee que, Natales) over corporate stores.

Yes and no on the coffee preferences. I can see that it's because of where I worked, but a lot of the coffee stuff breaks down into coffee knowledge on the part of the customers and the employees. If you read, I also said that a lot of Peet's employees don't get it right, either. For me, there are temperature differences that account for good flavor and bad - plus, it's a little disturbing to walk into a Starbucks only to see a bunch of milk being made without a barista attending it, only to have them set it on top of the machine for anything over a minute or two. I've seen it time and time again, and that's just not high-quality. It's gross.

Even the employees at the Starbucks I used to love to go to wouldn't know the difference between their coffees. If someone asks what a coffee tastes like (say, Kenyan, for example) chances are, they don't want some made up answer. I'd love to challenge someone from Starbucks on why their coffee's better... though it's been over 8 months since I've worked at Peet's I've probably retained more knowledge than most ever learned about coffees and teas and can tell the differences in regions, countries. Coffee is a sensory experience - even coffee flavored coffee... which isn't what Starbucks excels at.

As for the real differences between Peet's and Starbucks coffee, its mainly in their roasting technique. Peet's is all hand-roasted deep. Starbucks carries a wide variety of flavors and roasts, and most of them are pretty good (if the batch wasn't burned in the machine, as I've had before). It's all in how it's prepared.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Yeah, my biggest problem recently with Starbucks has not been the flavor (there are items there I like and items I don't), it's been consistency of preparation. Too many times things come out wrong (too watered down, not mixed well enough, proportions off). I personally don't really care enough to make a stink about it, but it's frustrating and reminds me why I rarely go to any coffee shop at all.

[BarTopDancer]

Consistency is the key anywhere. Even the best of the best can't be consistent 100% of the time.

My problem with what you keep saying is that having never worked at Starbucks you're going based upon your customer experiences there. Not the training or lack there of that you received. Broad assumptions are being made about what they do and how they do it. We have at least one poster here who works at Starbucks. Perhaps said poster will make an appearance and enlighten us.

If Peets were that much better than Starbucks they would have given them a better run for their money. But the fact is, the consumer is happy with Starbucks, with Peets, with whatever is closest. Maybe they don't have the all-knowing insight to either store to make an informed judgment as to why they should like one company over the other. All they know is they like what they like. If Starbucks was that bad people would gravitate to other choices and they would not be around anymore.

It's like fast food. Take a plain ol McDonalds, Wendy's, Carls and BK burger (just the plain basic burger) and put them side by side. The consumer may have their preference but in the end they are all fast food hamburgers. In the end these are all corporate coffee houses.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

If Peets were that much better than Starbucks they would have given them a better run for their money.

Yeah, that's totally why McDonald's ruled fast food for decades, because it's so much better.

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Yeah, that's totally why McDonald's ruled fast food for decades, because it's so much better.

They're losing ground fast. They keep revamping their menu to keep up.

I'm not saying Peets isn't better in my opinion. I don't care either way. I'm saying that if Peet's were that much better as in they are just as good (if not a little better) than Starbucks.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

They're losing ground fast. They keep revamping their menu to keep up.

I'm not saying Peets isn't better in my opinion. I don't care either way. I'm saying that if Peet's were that much better as in they are just as good (if not a little better) than Starbucks.

Do you really think it's because the quality changed? It literally took decades with McDonald's at the top for the others to catch up. So I can't exactly take Starbucks continued dominance to be proof that Peets doesn't have a better product.

[blueerica]

Actually, Peet's development has more to do with the long-standing beliefs of those who started the company. They didn't want to go global. Starbucks was a first with that, and has used incredible marketing skills, much to their credit.

In fact, there is a lot that coffee drinkers have Starbucks to thank for. After all, had it not been for Starbucks, gourmet coffee wouldn't even be on the map. It would be relegated to a handful of small shops in random places around the world.

By the same token Starbucks has lot to thank Peet's for, as it was Alfred Peet who inspired the idea to take the coffee to another level. Jerry Baldwin, one of the founders of Starbucks was trained by Peet in the art of roasting coffee.

While my experiences with Starbucks have only been from a consumer standpoint, it seems as though Starbucks doesn't actually enforce and quality controls - and that has nothing to do with Peet's, or any coffee company for that matter. If Starbucks did enforce quality control, drinks would be consistently of at least one quality, not varying so wildly from barista to barista.

I could go on a Dietrich's tangent as well. The company changed and went downhill as it became increasingly corporate, lending itself to the very spotty quality one finds in Dietrich's. They used to have some of the finest coffee in the Southland, and now - you don't know what you're getting when you walk into one of their stores. In fact, it got to the point that Martin Dietrich left and started up a new coffee business, Keane - which, by the way, makes the best coffee ever and has the most knowledgeable staff on the planet.

[BarTopDancer]

In the end all we're doing is throwing around opinions on what we think is a better product. I used the hamburger reference because it applies. In the end Peets, Starbucks and even Dietrichs are the *fast food* of the coffee world. Mass production of a consumable. Not because I think McDonalds is best. I don't like McDonalds and went nearly 4 years without eating at one for no other reason then I don't like their food.

We also have to keep in mind that we have educated palettes. We have the luxury of having hole in the wall restaurants, independent coffee places and the like at our fingertips. I doubt we are the majority.

[Ponine]

There again, you have a great many people like me.
I was never a coffee drinker... couldnt tell one roast from another. (still cant)
BUT... they built a starbucks or two on my way to work.
Now, I drink coffee-like beverages.

I know where there is a Deithrichs, and a Coffee Bean and Tea Leaf.
(Alas, I have no idea where a Peets is)
I also frequent two hole in the wall coffee shops.

Why? Because they are there. Becuase they wake me up.
One of the hole in the walls has a great pesto bagel.
One has a great coffee called a Chocolate Candy Bar.
I dont go for the coffee... I go because I lack the initiative to make myself breakfast.

Is it about the quality of the coffee? No.
Can I tell you if a Starbucks barista made my beverage wrong? Only if they forgot a flavoring.

McDonalds was a great example from a marketing aspect. (as is Starbucks) There was a time anywhere you went you saw the Golden Arches.
It was predictable. You knew what you were getting no matter where you were.
A four piece nugget in So Cal is a four piece nugget in Indianapolis.

A Peppermint mocha will be the same.

I'm not sure what started this thread,but I agree with a great deal of what BE is saying.
Marketing, and education is what put these companies where they are.
They are the Joneses the rest of world is keeping up with.

Yes, McD's is revamping their menu. But they are still one of the most recognizable brands in the industry. And truly, werent they changing to keep up with the healthy choices being offered by the other chains?

(I've now totally lost my train of thought)

[AllyOops!]

Here's the deal, folks. If I can't tell a coffee bean from a lima bean, do my opinions & taste suddenly "not count"? I likes what I likes and there you have it. Juan Valdez & his trusty burro could show up at my door & educate me and I'd still offer to take them to Starbucks for frappy's. Well, maybe not the burro. I'd give him fresh carrots & cuddles but dammit, this isn't about the way I feed and love our burro friends, people. This is about COFFEE. I think. I never know when I start to ramble.

I ♥ Buck Bucks. I also ♥ Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf. Peet's. Seattle's Best. The Folger's I brew in my pot. Bring it on 'cause I like it all! Unless Starbuck's operates entirely on the funds of coffee loving serial killers or donated heavily to the OJ defense, I'm still goin'. I mean,The friggin' burger dances on my friggin' tastebuds with delight. Whether it comes from Mc Donald's or not is beside the point (FYI- I don't touch fast food since it wigs me out so I should really shut up now- but you aren't gettin' that lucky.)

In the end it's all opinion, not gospel. Unless of course, it's my opinion. My opinion is gospel & fact. But you already knew that.